Ralph, glad to see you got the compression a little closer to where you would like it. I hope you get it finished soon. looks great!! Yamabond hey...... hmmmm have you used it before? Just curious, I know the subject gets a lot of air time on the engine rebuild forum, but I would be interested in your first hand observations.

Love the new Avatar header, I agree, that Moore guy just couldn't take a punch!! He He He He... I think it is Granville Island Time, got the steering rack out and need some motivation to put it back in!! After all it is 9:00pm here and I do have to drive it to my real job at 5:00 in the morning. I think I need a few more clients so I can get rid of the Real Job.

Once again, the motor looks great. I think you are building the motor the rest of us with Carreras want!!

Cheers, Jeff

Thanks, European Car is shifting gears and trying to go back to their VW & Porsche roots. If the brief articles that I am writing for them are well received, expect to see much more Porsche features to follow. Mitch Rossi did the early 911 series of articles and he is waiting in the wings to do more with Porsche cars. You guys don't have to like my articles, but let European Car know in the coming months that you want to see more Porsche content!

Boy, a 3.5L twin-plug in an early chassis with no smog requirements? Sounds like you have the project to have! Andial did a 3.6L (from a 3.0L) with slide valve injection for a customer in Mexico City when I worked there. Would be a nice motor for your project!

Careful Jeff, I know its hard to believe, but not everyone is a Canucks fan.:)

As for the Yamabond, am not worried in the slightest. Steve has used it for years and years and years and doesn't have a problem with leaking engines. Every engine builder has their personal favorites, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Hoist a GI Lager for me! I miss sitting at Bridges on the island watching the boats enter and exit False Creek.

Ralph

I was only kidding anout the hockey reference. Don't forget there was the odd woman to look at while at bridges as well!! :)

Jeff

Update for Wednesday the 27th:

Today was the day we did the final checks to make sure all is well with the valvetrain assembly. When I got to Steve's shop, he had just finished re-torquing the ARP head studs to 38 ft/lbs, fitted the chain housing boxes and installed the engine oil cooler that my buddy Eric Bloss at PMNA ultrasonically cleaned for me.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1098934027.jpg

We then fitted the Web 20/21 cams in the cam towers as well as the retaining plates, cam sprockets, and the 2 outer black chain ramps (the other 4 are already installed). The idler sprockets and cam bolts were also loosely installed in preparation for setting the cam timing and checking the piston to valve clearance. Note Steve's "tool" between the idler arm and chain housing to help keep tension on the chain without the tensioner installed

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1098934552.jpg

Steve then installed the rocker arms and shafts on cylinder #1. The newly polished shafts have been "updated" with the RSR seals (the shafts don't have the seals stock even though the grooves are there) to keep oil from potentially leaking from this area.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1098934843.jpg

The valves were then adjusted on #1 to .004" (.102mm). The 19mm cam bolt was torqued down to 90 ft/lbs. using Porsche tool 9191 to hold the sprocket.

Turning the motor over by hand, Steve was able to measure the piston to valve clearance by inserting a screwdriver on the valve adjusting screw and gently tightening it until he could feel the piston and valve make contact, then backing off. He measured 2.0 mm of clearance on the intake and 2.5mm of clearance on the exhaust. How did he know? The adjusting screws are M8x1 and thus every thread on the screw represents 1mm. According to Web-Cam's instructions, a minimum of .050" clearance on the intake and .080" (2 mm) clearance on the exhaust is required. No problem there.

Steve then proceeded to do the same thing on cylinder #4. Again, the rocker arms and shafts were installed and the valves adjusted. No problem either with the piston to valve clearance.

Steve also timed the cams within Web-Cam's range for the 20/21 profile which is 1.9mm-2.2mm. Mine is right at 2.0mm.

With the cams properly timed and everything else installed and torqued down to spec, the only thing left was to reinstall the chain tensioners. Here is the finished product:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1098935964.jpg

Last for the night, I quickly removed the stock oil restrictors from the cam towers and replaced with the updated version with the smaller orifice:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1098936091.jpg

Tomorrow we will finish installing the rest of the rocker arms and shafts, adjust the valves, install the 12 plugs and fit the upper and lower valve covers. We will also install the chain housing covers. The only thing left to install on the case is the 993 distributor, which I still need to change the drive belt on with a new one I picked up.

The headers are out being ceramic coated in a "titanium" finish that looks very nice and much better then black. May do the same with the Extrude Honed intake plenums as well.:)

People who have been following this project from the beginning on a different thread may remember the 935 conversion Vision Motorsports is doing on a '79 930 to race in historics. Here is the latest pic:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1098937042.jpg

Bodywork is from the same mold that was used to build the Howard Meister/ANDIAL 935 that Rolf Stommelen drove.

Wow, no one even responds anymore, are you guys getting bored with the thread and just wish we would hurry up and finish? I've gotten to that point as well.

Here is the latest update from tonight:

Steve installed the rocker arms and shafts for #2 and #3 on the left bank and #5 and #6 on the right bank and then set the valve clearance.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099025939.jpg

In the meantime, I installed the chain housing covers and when Steve was done with the arms/shafts I installed the newly powdercoated "Bavarian Silver" upper and lower valve covers while Steve worked on the cam oil lines for both sides of the motor.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099026082.jpg

A few ancillary pieces were next, including the oil pressure sender and a couple of cadmium plated brackets that will be used for the injection and air conditioning (yes, mine actually works and will stay on until it doesn't). The fan strap was then put through the case in preparation for the fan housing assembly installation tomorrow.

Lastly, the twin-plug 993 distributor is tentatively installed as we need to measure the spark plug wire length distance for each cylinder so Magnecor can make up the custom wire set. The distributor was picked up cheap on ebay ($210) and has been fitted with a new drive belt, dust shields, caps and rotors. I also have the vent update kit as well.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099026485.jpg

Only problem tonight is that we had to remove the stud on the case that holds the distributor in place. The stud length is too small for the 993 distributor so it is discarded in favor of a bolt. Problem solved!

Last picture is Steve messing around with the fan shroud. He told me he didn't want to be shown in any pictures but what he doesn't know won't hurt him.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099026774.jpg

Tomorrow we will attempt to measure the spark wire lengths, fit some of the engine sheet metal and install the fan shroud and alternator/housing/fan assembly.

The intake plenums arrived from Extrude Hone today, the fuel lines have been redone in braided hose and the fuel rails are now anodized black. We will work on the injection next week while waiting for Magnecor to send the wire set.

Only other parts we are still waiting for are the headers to arrive back from being ceramic coated (early next week) and for my buddy Kerry Morse to send me the RSR fiberglass heater block off for the left side of the motor.

I can start seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. The motor first came out on September 8th so we are going to be at approx. 8 weeks before she is finally fired up!

Ralph

Oh man! That's a purdy enigne...drool..

certainly not! its a great write up. :)

Really looks great! You must be learning tons of great stuff about engine building. Nothing like "hands-on" schooling.http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/wat6.gif
I don't even know you, and I'm getting fired up about your engine and drinking a beer in your honor. Keep up the great photos and play-by-play.:D

wow thats awesome. tons of great info too since my dad and I are contemplating something along these lines. you and steve are doing a top notch operation here, very nice that you can post all this for us. thank you and im sure your gonna enjoy it once its back in its proper place. btw i dont remember you mentioning anything earlier in the thread but are you beefing up the tranny at all?

Ahhhh the beauty of the G-50! No mods needed!

and Carrera3.5L - let me know when you are ready to start on my engine ;) looks beautiful!

No not bored at all - keep the pics coming. I thought I did well to get that dist. for $400 when they are often going for $800 -- you got a real steal.

Like they said, not boring at all. Keep them coming.
Forgive me if you already mentioned this, are you using the Andial splitter to drive the 2nd coil or some other method?
-Chris

You make me want to pull out my motor. I have parts on the shelf waiting for the day. Sure is purty!

Not at all, great stuff keep it coming.:)

Don't stop with the updates, really enjoying it!~

Chris

g-50 owner over here looking on with envy.

db

Hey, thanks for the kind comments guys. This obviously isn't the end all be all engine rebuild, but it is kind of neat to hit all the high and low points of a rebuild (only one minor low) and show the general process as it unfolds.

Jeremy is correct, no mods for the G50 are needed for strength (especially with the hp this motor will have) but I would like to do some things anyway! Fortunately, the transaxle shifts perfectly (no grinding synchro rings) so it will be left alone for now. I would like to add a Quaife unit for street use and either change the final drive or perhaps regear but that is a project unto itself and will be done when the gearbox needs refreshing. Jeremy, any time you're ready, ship the motor!

Randy, I watched ebay for quite a few months and bid on quite a few 964/993 distributors. I missed the first one that sold for $250. Patrick Motorsports ebayed a used unit with a barely used 964 wire set that I also missed out on that ended up selling for just over $400. The one I ended up with was from a guy who was selling stuff for TRG and I don't think anyone else even bid on it! I think if you are patient you can find them for $250-$300. The plus to buying a rebuilt unit from a shop is that they usually come with a warranty from Bosch.

Chris, I don't think I have a choice. Ex-Andial employee with another ex-Andial/PMNA employee helping build the motor and other ex-Andial or current Andial/PMNA employees lending special services. Even if the Andial signal splitter wasn't the only option available (which it is in my case), do you think that I could ever show my face around there with a competitor's version?:) I could almost see Dieter's face.:eek: To be quite honest, the Andial staff in the late 80's and early 90's were/are a pretty tight knit group.

Motor is really coming along now. Alternator wired back up to the engine harness, fan housing, fan (with slight trimming needed to the fan due to a little excess powdercoat) and shroud all installed. Fan belt installed and tension adjusted.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099107675.jpg

Also installed the motor mount bar and the a/c brackets (yes, don't give me a hard time) along with the throttle linkage plate and ancillary pieces.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099107840.jpg

Spark plugs also installed and I loosely installed the RSR lower hold-down clips (remember, the plug connectors still need to be fitted). Also installed the new cylinder head temp sensor on #3.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099108004.jpg

Finally, the oil return line underneath the motor was fitted. The cool thing about running these headers (albeit no heat is possible) is that there are no modifications required to any oil lines unlike the SSI's for Carrera's. George's headers are done being ceramic coated and will be picked up on Monday.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099108383.jpg

We roughly measured the wire lengths needed and will be on the phone with Magnecor on Monday to get this sorted and sent out.

I also took a couple of images inside the extrude honed intake plenums. Let's see how these turned out...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099108838.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099108870.jpg

I haven't gotten the before/after flow charts yet (I sent him a disk), but will share the numbers when I get them from Ed at Extrude Hone.

Interesting comment made by Steve tonight. He said this is his favorite part of the rebuild process. He says with the short block or long block the engine is just a bunch of parts and nuts and bolts and one is pretty similar to another but now with the ancillary components fitted it begins to have its own identity. He also believes this part is what separates a good engine builder from a great engine builder. The attention to detail with the ancillary components is often overlooked and shows with how different hoses, lines and wires are routed.

One last image taken tonight:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099109326.jpg

Ralph:
Before you install the intake, can you take a few pics of the large fuel line (connects both fuel rails). You mentioned it was aeroquip.
Regards,
J.P.

Sure, no problem. I responded to you in the other thread as well. The lines have to be reassembled as I took them apart and had the metal portion of the 3 way line black anodized along with the fuel rails. Should have something for you sometime next week. Not sure if the hose/fittings are Aeroquip though. I think Mesa Hose is using components from XRP. Comparable though I guess. Same place that Andial and PMNA get their specialized hose and fittings. Literally within walking distance from Neil's as well.;)

Ralph

Ralph:
Did you trim the insulators and gaskets for the plenums. When mine came back from E-Hone the diameters were slightly larger than the gasket and insulators.
Regards,
J.P.

Thanks Ralph:
I want to see if the fittings have the same spherical male fitting to match the female on the rails.
Regards,
J.P.

J.P.,

To be honest, I haven't even checked that yet. The only thing I did so far was clean the insulators as there was a bunch of build-up on them, although it scraped off quite easily and now they look good as new.

Will check that next week as well, thanks for pointing that out.:cool:

Geez J.P., it's 11 p.m. here which means 2 a.m. for you back East. Don't you sleep???

Ralph

Ralph:
Friday is my late night. Each of my runners had a different bore to flange measurement, so I matched the insulator/gasket set to each runner. You'll be surprise how much comes off. When I checked the inlet flange of the head, all the insulators were flush. It seems the head intake port is larger(diameter) than the plenum runners.
Ok I'm going to bed.
Ciao,
J.P.
Ps Dremel.

Well, hopefully everyone had a nice weekend. We began to tackle the Motronic section tonight.

First thing we did was bolt on the intake plenums, but not before I snapped one last image looking down the intake port of the heads:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099369528.jpg

J.P., I checked both the gaskets and insulators to the port on the plenums and they are identical on mine. No need to remove any material, they seem to fit perfect. Then again, I did tell Ed at Extrude Hone not to go hog wild on the plenum ports and simply match the plenum to the gasket. I guess he must have listened...

I also took the time to reseal the injectors with new o-rings. May as well, it is real easy with everything disassembled. The injector o-ring kits for the 3.2L Carrera are the same as some 944 models FYI and are pretty cheap:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099369665.jpg

Here is pic of the injectors installed on the plenums:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099369752.jpg

Next was installing the fuel rails on either side of the motor. I had mine black anodized to keep more in tune with the silver/black combo rather then have them anodized gold. Here is a completed pic:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099369972.jpg

Last for the evening was installing the infamous 3 way fuel hose. As noted previously, I chose to have it redone (the left side rubber had split on the stock one) using braided stainless hose with XRP fittings. This option was not only a heck of alot cheaper then shelling out for a new hose from Porsche, but IMO also looks nicer. If for some reason the hose leaks down the road, I can simply take off that section only for replacement, no need to replace the entire assembly.

Here are the lines before being reinstalled. I also had the metal portion that ties the 3 lines together black anodized to match the fuel rails:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099370166.jpg

Here is the left side:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099370298.jpg

and here is the right:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099370395.jpg

Here is a view from overhead:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099370434.jpg

Only one small problem. It looks like Mesa Hose made the left line about 1" too short, as the fittings that connect to the fuel rail are VERY close to hitting the intake plenum when everything is tightened down. I took the hose off after snapping the images above and will have them make it a tad longer. The right side and rear hose lengths are perfect.

That's about it for tonight. Will work for a couple of hours tomorrow evening and then I am off to SEMA in Las Vegas.

Ralph

Ralph:
Standard nuts vs. barrel hex units, good idea, I wish I'd thought of that, damn.
J.P.

If you're referring to the nuts used to mount the intake plenums, then it was Steve's idea. They are jet nuts used on 962's that Steve had left over in his vast collection of hardware. When PMNA "cleaned" the attic with the intent of dumping in the trash a bunch of parts, Steve and Eric both grabbed whatever they wanted. Sometimes it comes in handy...

I know Eric has a bunch of parts left over from the still-born Carrera Cup series in the early 90's that he bought for pennies on the dollar.:D

Ralph

Ralph:
Check out page 14 from this link. It's the metric fittings.

http://www.batinc.net/files/kits.pdf

Sent you a PM.
J.P.

J.P., got it and responded back. I know Eric over at BAT in Florida (he's a good guy), thought about sending everything to him but that was in the middle of all the hurricanes and figured he had more important things to worry about even though he said no problem. A week to get to him and a week to do the lines and another week back was just too long in my book, although it turned out I had plenty of time. I would recommend him though.

Ralph

Well, another relatively slow night sorting all the details with the injection and wiring. To be frank, this is quite monotonous and boring but Steve is having a hoot! He loves this stuff.

Was able to get the left side fuel line redone this afternoon while I waited, thanks to Scott at Mesa Hose for stopping his lunch and letting it get cold while he redid the line.

Installed the 2 pressure regulators tonight and the stainless hose that connects them:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099453240.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099453521.jpg

Steve drilled a small hole in the fan shroud for the distributor vent tube to do its job. This is usually routed to the heater blower tube, but since I no longer have use for it due to running headers with no heat capability, a little improvisation was necessary.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099453631.jpg

Also installed a bunch of miscellaneous brackets and the idle air stabilizer valve. Steve installed the reference mark sensors on the back of the motor:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099453889.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099453947.jpg

The injection and wiring is just about done but can't put any more of the sheet metal on until after the plug wires are fitted. Steve will bore out the throttle body using his template and that should be ready to go in the next couple of days as well.

After I come back from SEMA we will mount the headers and Dansk muffler and hopefully the Magnecor wires and Kerry Morses' RSR heater block-off plate will be waiting for me.:confused:

Here is the motor as it sits now just before I installed the idle air stabilizer valve:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099454484.jpg

Ralph

God that is pretty. Smart, smart engine build.

Thanks Craig, but it's no 3.6 Varioram in a lightweight chassis like you have!:cool:

But your engine is hand built from case up - an admirable thing.
While my engine was a ton of work to make fit & run, yours was a process of discovery every single step of the way.

I love the in process/progress stories & pics. I did the same thing because they are a ton of fun to show. I worked on my project for about 3 hrs a day for 5 weeks - hell, I HAD to show what I was doing!:)

Ralph:
Don't forget the small line that comes from under the regulator(dizzy side of motor) as the return. It's small and leaks from age. It shows on the first pic you recently posted.
Regards,
J.P.

God that is beautiful!

I didn't forget, just didn't replace it.:) It looked okay and so I took the easy way out and left it alone. I hope I don't have to eat crow later on. Would be just my luck though wouldn't it...

Tonight was exhaust night. The headers came back from being ceramic coated, and IMO look great with the "titanium look" finish that was put on. Not only does it look better then the high heat paint finish that they came with, but the ceramic coating won't burn off like the paint will and will provide protection against rust for quite awhile. Here are a few pics:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099625599.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099625664.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099625764.jpg

After the headers and adapters were tightened down, we temporarily put on the new Dansk 2 in-2out stainless muffler with dual 84mm tips just to take some pics tonight. I loved the way my other Dansk 1 in-2 out looked and sounded and wanted to replicate it. Sold the other Dansk to a fellow Pelicanite and got the new one for the headers (or SSI's if you want heat). Dansk part number 92.512SD:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099625964.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099625991.jpg

The custom Magnecor KV-85 twin-plug wire set cut to our specs also arrived today and we will tackle them next and make sure that the lengths are correct. Hopefully we took the correct measurements and won't have a problem with wires being too short or overly long.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099626370.jpg

It looks like the motor will be going in late next week!!!

Ralph

Ralph-
Are you planning to come up with a way to restrict one of the exhaust tips? At least for driving out of your neighborhood. I had a 2-in 2-out Dansk on my 2.7 for a few hours. It's pretty loud, bada$$, but loud. My 2-in 1-out went back on. I'm thinking about having smaller tips welded on in an attempt to quiet it a bit.

By the way, your engine is a thing of beauty! It's making me want to collect the remainder of my rebuild parts, but finances prohibit at the moment.

Jon,

Nope, no plans on restricting the tips. I honestly don't think it will be too bad. I've heard motors with a Dansk type street muffler as well as with megaphones and there is no comparison, the megaphones are much louder. I think I will be fine.

Bert told me you were moving to the Bay area???

Ralph

That's cool, I'm sure it will sound great. My wife just wasn't a big fan of mine.

Yeah, we're moving north. Never thought I'd leave So Cal, but I got an offer I really couldn't refuse. My wife's employer is located in SF, so it works well for both of us. The hardest part is facing the ridiculous real estate market up there. We should be packed up and ready to go by the end of November.
-Jon

Well, as Chris alluded to in an earlier post, here is the Andial Signal splitter needed when running twin-ignition on a Motronic motor. As of right now, it is pretty much the only game in town, unless changing to a complete crank-fire ignition which completely does away with the distributor. For street use, the crank-fire option is probably less then ideal, especially if the motor will be visually inspected during emissions testing.

The Andial signal splitter is installed under the driver's seat next to the DME unit.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099774556.jpg

So how much does twin-plugging a normally aspirated 3.2L Motronic motor cost? Well, here is a breakdown of what I paid. YRMV:

(1) Used 993 Distributor (ebay) - $210.00
(2) New Distributor Caps - $85.00
(2) New Distributor Rotors - $35.00
(1) New Distributor Drive Belt - $6.00
(1) New Distributor Vent Kit - $7.50
(1) New Bosch Second Coil - $45.00
(1) New ANDIAL Signal Splitter - $525.00
(6) New RSR Lower Plug Hold-Down Clips - $45.00
(12) New Spark Plugs - $15.00
Twin Plug Heads & Lower Valve Covers - $290.00
Miscellaneous (rubber grommets, wire separators, etc) - $50.00

Total: $1,313.50

Note that the sheet metal will also need to be modified for routing the lower wires. It is a good idea to do this BEFORE you have the sheet metal powdercoated.

EDIT: Actually, the above statement isn't entirely accurate. You can also simply drill into them afterward and install rubber grommets and nobody would ever know the difference. See later pics!

Bear in mind that I purposely left out the spark plug wires. This is an individual choice. You can simply resuse your old wires for the top plugs and make up your own wire set for the bottom set of plugs using new factory parts (except for the plug wire itself) or can make up your own complete top and bottom set (you will need approx. 25' of plug wire) so everything matches up or can turn to one of the aftermarket manufacturers to construct a wire set to your specifications. I chose Magnecor, which are on the expensive side of the spectrum but do enjoy a solid reputation in the automotive aftermarket.

Ralph