MFI, points question - Page 3

david c. · 10-24-2004, 09:08 PM

Just out of curiosity, have you swapped in a new or known good rotor and/or cap?

RoninLB · 10-24-2004, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mjshira

Hey Ron, What do you mean about the wiring? Are you in favor of this option?

I'm may not be a good example of what you should do? It's probably an attitude of what I would do to a small boat that has to run 100mi off shore alone. anyway read this thread for at least entertainment..
CD Ignition & MSD

also
- I'd check points/dizzy operation with an ohm reading across dizzy trigger connector and engine ground as long as your in there.
- couldn't you invest in CDI parts and remove them later ?
- a simple points/condensor/coil back-up is doable for $20.
- a CDI consists of main CD box always on power and ground, an ignition sw on/off wire, a coil, a dizzy trigger, and an rpm/tach wire.
- it seems so far that it's your coil.. unless unlikely builders wiring.

RoninLB · 10-24-2004, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dave cardone
Just out of curiosity, have you swapped in a new or known good rotor and/or cap?

exactly..
ps: he tried to manually trigger the CDI and it didn't work.

mjshira · 10-25-2004, 04:14 PM

I have tried to manually trigger two of the CDI's and both times without luck, I have all wires working, so I think its the coil. I heard some noise from the coil, which was odd. Anyway, rather than dick-around and spend money on local mechanics that probably know less about this system than I do at this point I ordered the following today:

Perma-tune CD/Coil combo

Allison breakerless ignition.

With these I will have I think a reasonable chance at getting her running. I am not sure about how the three wires of the current CD/Coil/Distributer will cross-over to the new set-up but I hope these items come with instructions.

Anyone have experience in installing these?

Thanks Dave for your input, thanks Ronnie, I know I can count on you always. Too bad you fellas dont live near here. Dave, did you make it to LA? If so make sure to come hang out with the EVIL crew next time I am out there (next month)

Early_S_Man · 10-25-2004, 04:27 PM

James,

If you have a VW specialty shop near you ... get a Bosch Blue coil!

If only Detroit iron hotrod shops around ... get an MSD High-Vibe epoxy-filled coil.

Both are less than $50 ... and both will work with either Bosch or Permatune CDI boxes!

mjshira · 10-25-2004, 04:31 PM

I was told that either of these will eventually ruin the CD box because they lack a specific resistance which a properly functioning bosch coil has. Plus, if I am going to be "in there" I want to make sure it is all new when I am done. This is my only car at the moment and I need her to be reliable.

I share your thoughts on being able to have access to good shops. I am sure down there in south Texas you have simular challenges. The thing is, I really think that I'd be wasting my time with anyone other than someone who has fixed this type of issue before. So that leaves me! And with you guys to support me I hope she'll be running soon!

Early_S_Man · 05:04 PM

James,

Bosch recommends that no other coil than the Porsche OEM coil be used with their CDI units. For years I followed that recommendation, and preached it here on this board!

However, recently I tested my original Bosch CDI unit with the Bosch Blue coil, MSD High-Vibration coil, Sears Epoxy [30+ years old] coil, Bosch Red coil ... for extended tests several days long, continuously on each coil ... no failures!

Whether various shop recommendations not to use any other coil than the Bosch 0.221.121.001 coil were based on the Bosch official documents or not ... I have no idea, but the fact that the Bosch coils are now over $150 may have colored their recommendations ...

The primary winding resistance and inductance [and turns ratio] of the MSD epoxy coil are very close to the OEM Bosch coil, and I have no doubts or concerns whatsoever about one of them causing a Bosch CDI unit to fail!

ps,

The current Bosch 0.221.121.001 coil has a silver aluminum case, and is made in Brazil. It has demonstrated a very high failure rate ... and I do NOT recommend that it be purchased!

Used, old OEM black German-made Bosch 0.221.121.001 or 0.221.121.006 coils can occasionally be found on eBay for good prices.

mjshira · 10-25-2004, 05:21 PM

hey Warren

Thanks for that info. I just spoke to Ronnie on the phone and I have a good idea what I am going to do when the parts come in. Just a reminder, I will have the coil-CD combo unit now so I wont need an external coil going forward. I will hold onto everything such that I have back up set-up.

mjshira · 10-25-2004, 05:47 PM

anyone have a elec diag for a 72?

Tyson Schmidt · 10-25-2004, 06:05 PM

James, the wiring for the CD is totally separate from the rest of the car. It only gets power from a connector on the rear fuse panel.

I can fax you the diagrams though.

mjshira · 10-25-2004, 06:11 PM

I know, I remember pal. I am just curious to have one. I want to look at the ignition switch, etc. The one thing I have not been able to test is if the CD has power while cranking.

Early_S_Man · 10-25-2004, 08:07 PM

James,

This 1971 diagram on Pelican is identical to CDI and MFI on your car ...

mjshira · 10-25-2004, 08:38 PM

thanks Warren! I really appreciate it. Before I take the rental car back I am going to pick up a timing light (sears is what I have so any recommendations?) and some outside lighting for working in the dark. I can bring the whole panel inside to mount the new CD unit and associated items before heading back out for the install. Not going to switch the points yet. Wanna see if the change mentioned will get her running.

Does anyone out there think this is the ignition switch??

mjshira · 10-26-2004, 10:28 AM

UPDATE

FedEx just dropped off all the parts. I got a timing light at Sears this morning, the one with the adjustment thing on the back for advance, so tonight I will be putting at least the new permatune CD/COIL on, wish me luck fellas!

James

mjshira · 10-26-2004, 05:12 PM

ok, well, I have a spark now. I also changed the plugs and it seems like it is trying to fire. lots of moderate little back-fires. I think that it might just have a bunch of fuel in the cyl. from all the turning over of the engine I have done.

But she still won't start. Any ideas?

Shuie · 10-26-2004, 05:20 PM

Timing? Did you pull the distributor to install the Crane trigger? If so, make sure you align the correct pulley marks on the fan housing (BTDT

)

mjshira · 10-26-2004, 05:22 PM

I have not installed the Crane. Should I do it now or try and get the old points to work?

david c. · 10-26-2004, 05:22 PM

Definately sounds like the timing is off.

mjshira · 10-26-2004, 05:26 PM

ok, the question is how can I get it close enough to start? I am done for tonight. Gonna tackle it after work tomorrow. Any tips are much appreciated. Dave, I am out in LA soon, come hang out with the EVIL crew when I am there ;-)

Shuie · 10-26-2004, 05:34 PM

If they were working before Id leave them until you get this problem fixed.

When you do install the trigger, make sure that the Z1 mark (TDC for #1) is aligned with the mark on the fan housing when the shutter is open or you will have a similar problem. I accidently used the full advance mark (pulley not marked and I couldnt see real well) when I installed mine and quickly flooded the engine.