So many failed PPI's...what do I need to change in my search?

[plymouthcolt]

Originally posted by Noel
What is your criteria for a car (Budget, Model, etc)? If you are expecting to find a SC for $10K for example that doesn't need a bunch of work, then you are dreaming. Also East Coast car are more expensive but also seem to have less miles and are generally in better shape since they are not driven as much. IMHO

When I bought mine, I talked to the owners of about 15-20 cars, looked at two, one failed PPI and the other I bought. It took me about a year, but I was looking for the "Right" car.

Hang in there. You may have spent >$600, but you probably saved even more than if you ended up with a car with major issues.

I am looking for anything (no cab) from 83-88 911. Budget max is $19k with mileage under 100k.

[Sonic dB]

For $663, you could have done the wheel bearings, CV boots and valve adjustments.

Stop looking for the perfect used 911...it aint out there at a reasonable cost.

Be prepared to spend $2-5,000 to recondition and bring any older 911 back to speed.

If you cant hack that...youd better stick to a normal car.

[plymouthcolt]

Originally posted by geof33
Plan on 20... for a well sorted car. Things to remember, the 915 is funky and notchy (not as bad with the g-50). Though some think the syncros are bad more often a clutch adjust is all that is nec.

With leakdowns etc... I'd be more concerned with compresion readings. Define MASSIVE oil leaks? Easy fix with new valve gaskets or are we talking case/seals?

The original oil lines (the small feeder to the cams) are most likley going to be leaky. They are old.

What is your failure threshold??? Also, get picks of the cars before doing the PPI... Search locally. Most areas have a Porsche mech within 100-200 miles. Easily drivable....

Some thoughts...

Failure threshholds would be bad compression /leakdown or gearbox that required a rebuild.

When I did the two out of state PPI's, I got burned by the sellers just flat out lying. Pictures were sent to me but unfortunately they can make a beater look like a concourse car.

[Joehand1]

The ideal car would be mine. An 87 owned by me for 17 of it's 18 year life, has 36k miles, always covered and garaged, completely serviced at least once a year by a master Porsche mechanic......

But sorry, it's not for sale.

[CarreraS2]

Originally posted by plymouthcolt
Failure threshholds would be bad compression /leakdown or gearbox that required a rebuild.

When I did the two out of state PPI's, I got burned by the sellers just flat out lying. Pictures were sent to me but unfortunately they can make a beater look like a concourse car.

That's tough - I don't know why sellers do that, it seems counterproductive. The worst thing IMO that a seller can do is set up the expectation too high so that a buyer's first reaction on seeing the car is disappointment. I've always underpromised, then overdelivered. Every car I've sold has almost always sold to the first guy who looked at it.

One tip for long distance - Post on this board asking a local pelican to look at the car. I've done it for others, and others have done it for me and it's saved everyone a lot of time and aggravation!

[rich22]

I don't think there's much you could be doing differently, other than just looking at local cars. If there aren't many around you, you don't have much choice but to look long distance. You could try grilling the seller on the phone, and reminding him that the forthcoming PPI will reveal all, so he might as well come clean and save everyone some time.

[dpriebe]

I think that you are on the right path. Its good to be picky about these cars. I went through a fairly similar process with having multiple PPIs done. One way I was able to get away with having multiples done was by carefully reviewing exactly what I was looking for out of a 911 with my mechanic. There were 2 cars that I brought in for inspection that lasted all of 5 minutes each on the lift before calling it off. And that was not because they were bad cars, they just didn't meet what I was looking for. One of them I still ponder about, a 73.5T in fantastic shape, but it didn't have S calipers or sway bar, plus minor accident damage repaired poorly. The cost to rectify those issues to make it at daily driver plus frequent DE made it instantly too expensive.

One of the best tools in my search was my mechanic as my ally and eyes/ears for other cars coming up for sale. There were a number of times I stopped by his shop to ask about cars for sale, and typically he knew the car or who worked on the car, and could give me an instant thumbs up or down to even go look at it. Another way to accomplish this may be through your local PCA.

One other approach is to broaden search range. Its look like you are only looking at Carreras. Why not look at SCs? That 18k SC might be twice the car of the 18k Carrera. I did that. I initially looked only at 72/73 and 78-83 911s, and wound up buying a 77, a car I vowed I would not even consider, a car that I kept for a weekend, found nothing wrong (well, the center vents were cracked), and returned it saying I wouln't buy it simply because it was a 2.7. In fact after thinking about it for 2 more weeks and looking at a couple of more SCs, I realized it was the best car that I had looked at by far, and I should just buy it.

One other thing to think about, is only looking at local cars. Sure this may take longer, but then you can be the judge before spend any $ on a PPI. Or for those distant cars, maybe get a fellow Pelican to check out the car before the PPI. I'm sure there are people in this community who would gladly do that.

Good luck with your search.

[Wayne 962]

There are a ton of good cars here in SoCal. If you're serious, get on a plane, and take a mini-vacation out here and look at a few...

-Wayne

[DavidI]

SoCal911SC (Brian) gave some very good advice about not only looking at the car, but the owner as well. Some of the things he mentioned will tell volumes about the condition of the car even before the PPI.

Take your time and good luck, David

[geof33]

Originally posted by Joehand1
The ideal car would be mine. An 87 owned by me for 17 of it's 18 year life, has 36k miles, always covered and garaged, completely serviced at least once a year by a master Porsche mechanic......

But sorry, it's not for sale.

Ya know... This is a board that is mostly made up of guys that drive the snot out of their cars...

I'm sure your car is beautiful but 36k in 17 years???? 2000 miles a year??? Let's talk garage queen...

To be honest, I'd be a bit less likely to buy your car simply because it has sat so much. These cars need to be driven to keep seals etc. in good working order... sitting can cause several other problems with a 911. A low mileage 911 is not neccesarily a good buy...

[Joehand1]

I drive my car on weekends, very hard and very fast, I choose NOT to drive it daily because I don't really like the new 911s and I don't want to beat this one up.

So what if it is a garage queen, it leaks NO oil, and drives like a brand new 911.

And I wouldn't sell it to you anyway.

HOWEVER, you are correct to question low miles in an older car in that many sit up for months or years without even being cranked. Horrible things happen to these cars, but mine is not one of them.

[anthony]

The previous owner of my car drove it 9K miles in 10 years. It doesn't seem to have suffered at all. In fact I'm glad he saved it for me!

[dickster]

Howard

Have you tried reputable dealers?

I got my '86 from a dealer. I went and checked out his stock, and there was nothing that interested me. I explained what I was looking for and a couple of weeks later he emails me pictures of one he sourced.

Three years ago i bought it without history and without PPI (not suggesting you do that) and its still running great.

It might be another option for you.

[Jim Richards]

Howard, if your budget is $19k, I'd recommend that you look for a $15-16k car and keep the rest of your money for initial / near term repairs / maintenance. Vetting used cars over the internet is a challenge, so I'd also suggest that you try to find a local Pelican to take an initial look at any car you're seriously considering. This might help weed out some of the less realistically advertised cars. If any of my comments were already posted by others on this thread, sorry for being redundant. Howard, best wishes on your car search!

[Z-man]

Howard:
First off: I think they are charging you too much for a PPI! $600 + for three inspections? You shouldn't have to pay more than $50 to $150.00 MAX for a PPI.

Your best bet is to keep looking - look at and drive as many cars within your budget / needs / requirements that you can find. KNOW the car you want to buy - all the ins and outs. Search these forums & ask the questions.

After some time, you will be able to do a 'pre-PPI' yourself - you'll be able to eliminate the really bad ones, and then can focus on the good examples and spend your money getting a professional PPI on the ones that not only interest you, but also pass your pre-inspection.

I had a checklist that I used when I was searching for my Porsche. It is based on the 944 model, but with a little modifiction, you can use it to look for your 911 SC or Carrera. Send me a PM or email if you want a copy of it. (Credit: much of my checklist was derrived from an article I read in Excellence magazine a few years back).

BTW: It took me FOUR years of reading, research, test driving, forum browsing before I got my 944S2. It was worth the wait! Don't settle for 2nd best, and make sure your Porsche is the one that will best suit your needs!

Good luck!
-Z-man.

[preeble]

I would take some of the previous posters' advice - if your limit is $19k, I would look to spend perhaps $17k max - knowing that you may need to spend some money immediately to get the car close to your standards. Remember, you still have to pay sales tax on the car (assuming you buy it from a private party) - assuming that they do that in MD.

For $17k, I would focus on an early non-G50 Carrera. You should also figure out if you want a coupe or a targa to help narrow the search. Generally, coupes sell for maybe $1000 more than targas in similar condition - there is a bigger demand for coupes for track purposes.

I also had 3 failed PPIs before I found my current car. Hang in there and you will eventually find one. Also - while you may think you will get a better deal because it is winter, many people don't put their car on the market until early spring, so if you wait you may have a better selection next year.

[plymouthcolt]

All great information guys. I guess screening the owner is just as important as the car.

[plymouthcolt]

Originally posted by dickster
Howard

Have you tried reputable dealers?

I got my '86 from a dealer. I went and checked out his stock, and there was nothing that interested me. I explained what I was looking for and a couple of weeks later he emails me pictures of one he sourced.

Three years ago i bought it without history and without PPI (not suggesting you do that) and its still running great.

It might be another option for you.

Most of the dealers around here deal only with used 996. There is one, Cherner Classics, that I contacted. Sometime they get trade in's or consignments. They did call me about a white Targa but the paint was shot.

[dickster]

Howard

ok, how about a reputable dealer further afield? the one i used was a 4-5 hour drive and overnight stay away. the great thing about the net is that they can email pictures before you go and check cars out.

if you use the right one it will make your search alot easier.

[Eric Coffey]

Here's a recent Autotrader search list
(85-89, under 100k miles, from $15-$19k, sorted by distance from Gaithersburg, MD zip code 20883):

http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/results.jtmpl?&model=911&body_style=&color=&max_mileage=100000&doors=&engine=&fuel=&drive=&transmission=&start_year=1985&end_year=1989&min_price=15000&max_price=19000&distance=any&certified=n&advanced=&advcd_on=y&make=POR&address=20883&search_type=used&x=49&y=5&sort_type=distance