Yes, I thought the description use to read, fits '65 - '89, '65 - '68 requires slight body modification. The inner flange needs to be ground about 3/16 on the top where the lights are and the same on the inside vertical edge.

FYI guys- I have a set of Rays LED lights. They are great. The fiberglass work is top notch.
The weight of a complete stock 911 rear tail light assembly is
3 pounds 9 oz. (7 pounds 2 oz for the pair) I do not know how people say these things are over 5 pounds each. These are off my 1969.
Rays LED light assembly weighs a tad over 14 oz. each (1 pound 12 oz for the pair painted)
Total weight savings for the rear of the car - 5 pounds, 6 oz.
(I think my math is right :) )
All weights taken on the same digital scale.

Here is a picture. I have to do some final buffing/rubbing but they looks great.
Mine are Red/Red because we do not use them turnsignals when racing :)
Both lights on each side light up... Nice and bright. I need to return a "Brake Check" favor to a fellow racer. I thought these would be a great addition to help.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1110130814.jpg

Now thats eye candy.....Looking good!!

I found this place for led bulbs: http://www.superbrightleds.com/1157.htm

Rgds, Jt

This week I'm installing my led lamps with reverse and I'm having a bit of trouble with the wiring. Ray offered to help but he is traveling this week and mentioned communication may be slow. Please help!

This is what I think I know about the wiring in my '71:

black/yellow stripe - brake light
black/white stripe - turn signal
grey/red stripe - running light
gray/brown stripe - backup light
brown - ground

and the red LED lamps:
white - ground
black - turn/stop
red - tail

the white LED lamp:
black - reverse signal
white - ground

The backup lights work. No problem there. The problem is the brake/running light/turn signal red LED lamp. The LED lamp has three wires. My OE wiring uses four wires. I need to know the proper way of connecting the 4 OE wires to the 3 wires on the back of the LED lamp.

The turn signal seems to be working with the running lights off but when I turn on the running lights the LED lamp does nothing.

Currently I have the wiring connected like this:

red - grey/red stripe
black - black/yellow stripe + black/white stripe
white - brown

for the backup lights:
black - gray/brown stripe
white - brown

The red and white LED lamps both share the same ground.

Is my current wiring correct? Thanks for the help,
-Kaefer

Here is a close up of the red and amber lamps.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1110303508.jpg

In the fine print it mentions these are no brighter than an incandescent bulb, and that the LED conversion is just for long life. I thought the reason for going LED was to have a brighter light? Also in the fine print some issues about matching the lens color to the LED color?

Has anyone had success with these replacements led bulbs?
Which ones are best suited for 911 tail lights and turn signals?

Hello from the airport terminal!

Kaefer's set up is using a single lamp on each side for all functions Stop/Turn/Tail. For visualization, the photo from Shawn above uses the red lamp for Stop/Tail and the amber lamp for Turn functions. Kaefer's kit substitutes a white lamp for reverse in the location of Shawn's amber turn lamp.

I have one other application similar to Kaefer's, but the wiring turns out to have been non-standard. In theory, a single S/T/T lamp should operate as "on" for tail, "bright" for stop, and alternating on/bright for turn. The standard Porsche harness and flasher doesn't resolve the conflict between between "bright" for stop and turn, so we're working on a patch now.

"I thought the reason for going LED was to have a brighter light?"

Many aftermarket LED conversion lights are not DOT legal. I don't know whether it has to do with ultimate brightness and/or the off-axis light levels. Many new cars use LED stop/tail lamp assemblies. These probably meet specs by the sheer number of LEDs in the housing and the size of the lamp assembly.

One advantage of LEDs is the faster ON response time compared with incandescent bulbs. At highway speeds, the difference can equate to enough distance to prevent a collision. Late 911s that use a pressure switch in the master cylinder typically require higher brake pedal effort to close the brake light circuit.

The R-type rear TL housings I've seen don't produce a lot of light, especially during the day (and that's with incandescent bulbs). I would suggest adding an LED light bar (3rd brake light) in the rear window to keep the semi trucks off the rear end (see archives for a $20 solution). As far as an aftermarket LED stop/tail lamp, I'd shop for the largest, multiple LED bulb assembly that fits inside the housing/lens.

If the application is a track-only car, one could reduce some add'l weight by replacing the regular taillight harness with one using lighter gauge wire. The amount of current required of LEDs is miniscule compared with incandescent bulbs.

Kaefer,
Just a WAG. If your current wiring connections are the same as the factory setup, perhaps it might have to do with reduced current flow through the system that affects the existing turn signal flasher (relay). Mechanical relays need a minimum threshold current flow to work and LED current requirements are low. JT's LED link shows a device to provide the correct load in the circuit. Or you could use an electronic flasher. However, since the factory uses a 4 prong relay and most flashers are 3-prong, I haven't yet worked out the elec. connections to make this conversion work (it might be easy or not as).

Sherwood

Hmm....a patch, eh? Does this mean my white and red lamps won't work correctly with my OE wiring?

If I had a pair of amber lamps I might be able to hack apart the white and amber lamps and make a white/amber combo lamp out of the two seperate lamps.

-Kaefer

Here is a quote from the link mentioned above:
I noticed that without the running lights on and the turn signal working I was getting indication on my guages that I had a burnt out bulb. I might have to investigate the electronic flashers and load resistors. Arrgghhhh more $$$.

I'm going to try and hold off and See what Ray comes up with for a patch.

-Kaefer

Ray,
Are there 2 different levels of brightness with the 3 wire reds? I hooked both the red and black wires from all the lamps to the brake light wire. When I tried, they did not get brighter than the regular brake brightness (From just using a single wire for brakes). There should be two levels of brightness...correct? Is this "patch" going to resolve this?

With the 3-wire lamp, the black & ground circuit turns the lights in "on" mode and the red & ground circuit lights the "bright" mode. (check your instruction sheet to make sure my memory is OK here)

Chad, your set up uses four three-wire lamps. For lights you should use the black and for brakes you should use the red. Turning on the tail lights will light all four lamps in "on" mode. When braking all four lights will increase to the "bright" mode. You should never connect both the red and black wires to the same feed. The circuit board won't suffer, but as you observed, you'll confuse the wiring fault (lamp out) circuit in the car.

Scott, you can't split the lens to get two colors. In order to get DOT compliant for both brightness and 180 degree visibility the lamps use two LEDs, both on the same circuit. The internal circuit board controls switching of the lamps depending on which lead is "hot" from the wiring harness.

Use of a single S/T/T lamp will require a circuit or patch to allow the turn function to dominate the stop function when both are activated. I discovered that the test car utilized a four-pole turn signal flasher so this issue didn't surface. The fix should be pretty basic - the intention will be to modify the turn signal from "bright vs off" to "bright vs on."

To get running now, Scott, disconnect the black/white Porsche wire from the black wire on the new lamps. While I'm travelling I don't have the installation instructions with me. I assume from your note above that the instructions indicate that black is for stop/tail? If so, then by disconnecting the blac/white from the black and making sure that the grey/red is attached to the red, you should have reverse lamps, tail lamps (running lights), and brake lamps operable.

Sorry, I'm shooting from memory while I'm on the road.

Ray,

As per the instructions that came with the lamps:

The red LED lamps:
white - ground
black - turn/stop
red - tail

The white LED lamp:
black - reverse signal
white - ground

My factory wiring:
black/yellow stripe - brake light
black/white stripe - turn signal
grey/red stripe - running light
gray/brown stripe - backup light
brown - ground

Here's is the way the wiring is currently connected:

red - grey/red stripe
black - black/yellow stripe + black/white stripe
white - brown

From the post above it looks like if I snip the black/white stripe wire then I'll be ok until the patch is out? Will I be receiving the patch when it's available? Thanks for the update,
-Kaefer

Edit: I won't be ok by snipping the black/white stripe wire. That's my turn signal wire. With the crazy drivers around here I don't want to get rear-ended or ticketed because of not signaling for a turn. Arrgghhh....

Ray,

I sent you a PM about getting these gor my car. Hope to hear from you soon. Have a good trip.

Vintage 911 Racer.

Ray,

also tried a PM, but not sure if your around.

I'm also interested in a set for my 930. Shoot me an email at vlocci@rcn.com when you get a chance. I'll wait to hear from you before pulling the trigger on a AR concepts set.

Thanks,

Vin

Hi, gang. Where I am the wireless broadband is spotty, but the steaks are good. I'll be back in Chi-town soon. In the meantime, while I have a pretty good signal I will get to the PMs.

Thanks

Hmmm. I don't have any new PMS, guys. I'll try to email you directly.

Mark - I'm unsure how to reach you. Tried PM but it must not be working.

Ray

Email me at mark @ vararacing . com

Ray,

Do you have a timeframe estimate for the availablility of the 'patch'?

Thanks,
-Kaefer

Where can we order these lights from?

Contact Ray 911s.

Here's quick update on my saga with these lights. Ray is working on an updated solution for people who need reverse lights. In the mean time he sent me a pair of amber lights to use for turn signals.

I'm trying to think up ideas on what to do for reverse lights. A couple options may be to re-wire the stock blinker relay, or perhaps add a third pair of lights somewhere on the back of the car to use as reverse lights. Possibly add some low profile lights near the license plate or possible mount lights to the bumper in place of the reflectors that are on most stock early cars.

Has anyone else come up with a solution for reverse lights that are also using Ray's LED lights?

Thanks,
-Kaefer

These look sweet! Can they be made for a 964? Sorry if this has been asked before, but I'm thinking about sending my spare set of lights and reflector to Germany for the blacked out look by Linatec.

My thoughts on reverse lights was to use a small, read cheap, fog light that uses a regular 12v turn signal bulb. A pair can be had a most Auto Parts stores for around $10. Hang this under your rear bumper, maybe in the center partially hidden by the license plate.

How about a side turn signal indicator, say from an Audi, use a clear lense and an LED. Mount this to the bumper.

All we need is one white light that lights in reverse to satisfy most states inspection requirements, I believe.

I got my light and they look awesome!


But, I am having problems with the lights, the red one in particular.
When the wiring (3 pin plug) for the brake and running lights are all connected I get no brake light. Running/marker light works fine. When it is just the brake light, it works fine ( 2 wires connected). Hook up the running light and brake light, all three wires connected, no more brake light.

1985 911 Carrera Coupe ===== Red LED Light
Black/Yellow stripe - brake =====> Black
Gray/Red stripe - marker/running light => Red
brown - ground ================>White

HELP!

Mark, your leads are reversed. Connect the Gray/Red to black on the LED, and the Black/Yellow to red on the LED.

Let me know how it works out. I may need to reword the installation instructions a bit for this situation.

Thanks reversed the wires to what you have stated above and they are now working. THANKS!

Maybe add a diagram too. At least for me, it is easier to follow an electrical diagram.

Now to get them painted. ; )

Great. I think you are right - a wiring diagram would be a helpful addition to the instruction sheet. I'll get started on one. Thanks for the tip!

I'm glad they're working out for you.

Another interesting LED automotive lighting resource is LEDTronics. I'm trying out some of their bulbs in my truck.

The problem, so far, is to find a flasher that can deal with the low wattage of the bulb, most current flashers can't handle the 0.5 watt bulb, they're looking for 21 watts.

Or, use this: http://www.ledtronics.com/ds/AUT3157/default.asp#resistor

If you are just sonverting incandescent bulbs to LED within an existing lamp assembly, there is a good solution to the flasher controller HERE.

Yes, these solutions have been available almost from the start of LED conversions. As noted on LEDTronics site, they have the problem of heat generated by the resistor, and of course they negate one of the benefits of going to LED's, low power consumption.

While I agree that these are very simple solutions, better is a modified flasher, and best is a new flasher that can either be adjusted to compensate or a flasher that flashes based on time, not current draw.

These solutions are helpful - necessary, in fact, if you are converting most or all of your standard lamps to LEDs. If just converting a few - the rear stop/turn/tail, for example, the standard flasher works fine because there is still sufficient current draw from the rest of the lamps. The first sign that you have reduced current below acceptable levels in your Porsche will be that the turn indicators on the dash will both flash when you turn on one or the other blinker. Again, this should only be an issue if you have replaced most or all of your incandescents will LED lamps. The 911R rear conversions will not require flasher modifications.

My '71 with 911R rear LED lamps has caused my turn indicators in the dash to flash like I have a bad bulb. No other LED lamps on my car.

It's not a big deal but it is an issue.
-Kaefer

My turn signal indicators have always flashed simultaniously. Even before I put the LED "R" lights on the car. What should I look at?

Oh and here is a good shot of my LED "R" lights...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1115655232.jpg

ditto. any pointers on how to resolve this or is it a trial-and-error-w/-the-wiring thing?

I would imagine a resistor across them would do the trick. Probably easier to do it up nearer the flasher. I would get Warren or John Cramer to name a value, LOL

I believe that the normal resistor size for the LED conversion on a car is ~ 6 Ohms @ 50 Watt. I have converted most of my bulbs to LED, and am experimenting with trying to get the correct resistor. at the moment I have 6 Ohms for each corner, and they work, but I am still getting the bulb out problem on the indicators on the dash. I will try with bigger resistors during the next couple of weeks.
I also discovered that the circuit on our cars has the fuse for the indicators just before the bulbs, so that you can hock in the resistors at the fuse board.
The ideal solution would be (as already pointed out) to get a new flasher relay which does not react to the reduction in current load. I have been trying to find a suitable replacement for the car, but have not found one so far.