A Little Help Please Tell me about the "Mid Year" -74-77 3.0's

[Dan in Pasadena]

First, YES I know the mid years had the 2.7's and I know the original problems and the fixes. Please tell me about the 3.0's. Was the 3.0 only available in "Carrerra's"? I think I've read these Carerra's were more of an appearence package than a true exceptional performance model....not at all like the holy grail 73's, right? Having said that, I can't imagine that the 3.0 qouldn't be better performing than the 2.7 of the same time.

I think I know a fair bit about 911's, though I haven't bought mine yet. I am interested in the orange one for sale in the Classifieds here but need more info. Seller claims it is "extremely rare", but I think I've read that that though nice, they aren't rare. Can't speak to the Euro model - What does the Euro bring? Different performance? Other? Should it have graphics? Were the Euro models galvanized starting in '76 like the U.S models were? Were these 3.0's the same as the first SC 3.0's? If different, how so? All advice appreciated

[POVI]

Hi,

I owned a 1976 Carrera 3.0 euro car, body is basically the same as the
911 SC, flared in back , with larger rear bumper pads, like the euro '76-77 turbos .Engine was 3.0 liters but different configuration then the 911sc , but still with CIS fuel injection.I think the 3.0 used the same engine case as early turbos.Actually a few years ago I took a carrera engine case , and put a early short stroke 66mm 911s crank , mated with 98mm 3.3 turbo liners ..for a 98x66 mm real short stoke 3.0 motor.The 3.0 carrera was more potent than the US 2.7 liter 'carrera' cars,with hp figures +- what the 911 sc would be.

I dont have my spec book handy , but im sure someone will chime in with power figures ...

Take care

Joe

[Dan in Pasadena]

Thanks Noah, I will search for that thread.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Not having much luck in the search. What search words shouls I be using? Tried European Carrera's, middle year porsches, euro 3.0, etc. Anyone remember the title of the threads?

[GeorgeK]

Try this:
Euro Carrera 3.0 specifications?

They are the last of the genuine Carreras and the first of the cars that used a little less fuel.

[IROC]

The 3.0 liter Carreras (called the Carrera 3.0, I believe) were only available as '76 and '77 model year cars. Porsche also sold a base model "911" during these years and a "911S". The base model 911 and the 911S were essentially the same with the exception of trim and sway bar sizes, etc.

The 3.0 Carreras were "Rest of World" cars only and were never imported to the US, so the word "rare" could be used, but there are actually quite a few of them in the US now.

"Euro" or RoW doesn't really gain you much, but it's not really a detriment either. Depending on how the car was brought into the country, it might be alot closer to a Euro car than many gray market cars brought in later. My '76 is a RoW "911" and the only change made to the car when it was brought into the US was the headlights (which I promptly re-installed the Euro H4s when I bought the car). Galvanzing is the same on both US/RoW models...

Mike

[Dan in Pasadena]

Thanks for the info Mike. But what about things like door beams and perhaps other safety items that might have come standadrd on U.S. models that didn't come on ROW cars? I assume at least door beams would have had to be installed so the cars could be brought into the country, but maybe I am wrong.

You thoughts on this and any other safety or emissions changes that would have been mandated? The car I am looking at has long been registered in California (so I am told), but I've read that I shouldn't rely on that and should get whatver paperwork is available on the importation or "federalizing" that took place.

Last, notice that your signature says '76 3.2 - did you change the engine or do a displacement increase (is that possible) to the original 3.0? Other changes you would recommend as a ROW owner?

[IROC]

Dan,

My car originally came with a 2.7 (a type 911/81 RoW engine) - I just swapped in a 3.2 a couple of years ago. One thing I learned a few years ago is that my car came with what was essentially the 912E interior (I guess this was common for RoW 911s in 1976). Much more spartan (and lighter weight) than US-spec 911s. I would imagine the 3.0 liter Carreras had the more luxurious interior...

My car was brought into this country by the PO under some sort of "one time exemption" that the government was allowing back in mid '80s. Somehow (I'm not fully sure how), they didn't do anything to my car when they brought it in short of installing a set of sealed beam US-spec headlights and changing the rear turn signal lenses. No emissions, stuff, no door beams, nothing.

Since you're in California, I would try and see what "federalization" paperwork can be had with the car. Since I'm in Alabama I haven't had a need to worry about that kinda stuff - anything that can move under it's own power seems to be "legal" on the roads here. :>)

Mike

[Dan in Pasadena]

Mike, thanks for the fast response. You can read about the car I am looking at on Pelican's Classifieds right now. The current owner says he bought it from a PO that had it since '80. I am guessing one owner prior to that in Europe, but there could have been more or the PO could have bought it in Europe, who knows?

Anyway, there are no records on this car before the last two years - red flag, of course. The car has only had minor paint work done as far as he knows, the hood for sure...but the car (from the pix) looks awfully good - too good? - for no full repaint in 28 years. The PO did swap the headlights and the current owner swapped them back to H4's. I have my concerns about rust only because the PO lived in a couple of beach cities here in SoCal and the car sat according to the current owner for an extended time, most of it in the sunshine which nuked the interior and necessitated the new interior it has now.

Curious, does your car have (or had) the Carrera 3.0 rear badging? Do you know what years had that? From the pix of the car I am looking at, it has the flag mirrors (original in '77 ROW's?) snorkel headlight washers, narrow rear bumpers guards, but the front lower fascia does not have the centered vents I've seen elswhere on Euro C3's. What am I missing? What are the obvious external differences for a newbie to C3's to notice?

[IROC]

Originally posted by Dan in Pasadena
Curious, does your car have (or had) the Carrera 3.0 rear badging? Do you know what years had that? From the pix of the car I am looking at, it has the flag mirrors (original in '77 ROW's?) snorkel headlight washers, narrow rear bumpers guards, but the front lower fascia does not have the centered vents I've seen elswhere on Euro C3's. What am I missing? What are the obvious external differences for a newbie to C3's to notice?

My car did not start off life as a Carrera 3.0 (unfortunately). I would suspect that both the '76 and '77 model year cars would have the badging in addition to the flag style mirrors (those came out in '76).

You should easily be able to tell if this is a Carrera 3.0 by the VIN. I don't have the book handy, but the 5th digit should be the telltale number you're looking for. My VIN starts off 91163... the "3" signifies a RoW 911. The 3.0 Carreras had a different digit there. Someone have that digit handy?

Mike

[Dan in Pasadena]

Thanks Mike. I find myself getting kinda excited about the prospect of owning this C3. I know it's not truly a "rare" car - maybe in '77, but certainly there must be a number of them in the U.S. by now. It's not like it's a '73 RS or anything. But, it's nice to think I could own something that is at least somewhat unique.

I mainly like older (perfect) cars - mostly because with new cars? Anyone with the guts or stupidity to sign a piece of paper can have one! A car like this has just a little uniqueness and appears to be in pretty nice condition. Yes, anyone have that 5th VIN number handy?

[Silveresrty911S]

I believe the 76 C3 the number is 6
So it should read 911660XXXX

This would be for a coupe, targa would have a 1 where the 0 is.

[Bill Verburg]

That looks like a very nice and correct C3, shortly after I brought mine over one of my neighbors brought over an Orange coupe the same color as that one. Very nice!

The only incorrect parts are the headlight trim rings, which are actually correct(mine are the same) but do need body color trim rings over them and the polished wheels, they should be black center 6&7 x15 or optionally 7&8x15 or 6&7x16, the front turn signals are the federalised US versions, in Europe there was one less piece of plastic and one more rubber piece.

the engine lid script should look like this sans RS

ignore the spoiler the one on the orange car is correct and the bumpers again the orange cars are correct as far as I can see.

When those cars were brought over there was an emission waiver (EPA Form 3520-1) that would have been issued and was supposed to be kept w/ the cars documents)but full DOT compliance was mandatory and a certificate of compliance or a letter of release from the customs bond advising that DOT reserved the right to further inspect the vehicle for DOT compliance at a future date(never happened).

[Dan in Pasadena]

Bill, Very good info, thanks.

The current owner knows the PO and has already told me the guy was very bad at keeping records, hence little or no original receipts/paper other than the last two years of ownership by current owner. This concerns me a lot and might be the reason I do NOT buy this car if it otherwise looks good. I am considering.

So, having said that, how big a deal is it if the current owner does not have this "emission waiver (EPA Form 3520-1)" nor the C of C, or Letter of Release from Customs bond? WHat I am driving at is ending up with a car I can't 1. transfer ownership on, 2. register yearly and have it pass California smog. It has supposedly been registered in CA for a long time. I will chack that. I wouldn't buy this car without it passing smog check BEFORE I put the cash down. BUt I remain concerned about later "paper" troubles. Thoughts?

P.S. As to that incorrect front bumper. Is there really "one more piece of rubber" -per side, instead of the added turn signal plastic?...or was it correctly one longer overall piece of rubber? and either way, can I get these parts to correct the car back to "Euro" appearence? Should I? Thanks for the help. Dan

[Dan in Pasadena]

Noah,
Yeah, absolutely it is of no real concern. Just asking about these details because I haven't been to see it yet (severe rain for 4-5 days here) and I keep mooning at the pictures like a love starved kid, dumb - I know.

I will see it (fingers crossed) tomorrow or Thursday and then will have a much better idea if I will pursue it seriously or if it has issues not apparent from the pix and the conversation with the current owner.

Much thanks for the minor ass kicking to wake me up :>)

[1973911s]

Dan,

I would be really concerned of Rust if it sat outside at the beach. I have an 84 that has lived by the beach all its life, and in a garage, it had rust.

Becareful, it sure looks really nice for not being painted.

Michael

[Bill Verburg]

how big a deal is it if the current owner does not have this "emission waiver (EPA Form 3520-1)" nor the C of C, or Letter of Release from Customs bond? WHat I am driving at is ending up with a car I can't 1. transfer ownership on, 2. register yearly and have it pass California smog. It has supposedly been registered in CA for a long time. I will chack that.

I dunno, the only time I needed that paperwork was when I originally registered the car in NH, when I moved to NY they only asked to see the registration form NH(but did remind me that I was subject to a physical inspection which never happened). My guess is that as long as the car has been previously registered in Ca. you will be ok, but I am not at all familiar w/ the emission regs out there.

That appears to be a great car, if I didn't already have one I would consider it but I do understand your trepidation. Why not contact the CA. DMV for their take on it. They are really wonderfull cars stock.

The bumper is correct it's just the turnsiganals. Here is a pick of George K's '76 C3, ignore the valance, he has modified it, but the bumpers and turn signals and headlight trim are correct.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Noah, I AM thinking about joining the"brotherhood", I'm thinking hard while my cojones are reacting to the beautiful look of this car from the pictures.

If I do buy it, you wanna start a C3 Registry? I'm kidding, well, kinda, sorta. Doesn't seem like there is an established site for these cars. Anyway, calling Wes now about going over this afternoon.

I have always had a sort of "sixth sense" about used cars. I've never been wrong yet - knock on wood. I'll post what I find. Thanks to all for the advice, information, opinions and help. Dan

[1973911s]

Dan,

Did you get a chance to see the car? Sure looks nice in the pictures.

Michael

[Kaama]

There was once a one-time exemption on the EPA stuff, but the DOT had to be done.... sort of. At that time you only had to provide a documentation package that the car was DOT'd.

I helped a friend DOT a Mercedes back in the late 70's or so. We took pictures of all the mods- headlights, door reinforcements, etc. The door reinforcements were intended to be welded in, and the owner was not concerned about an actual inspection so we made 'weld beads' out of modeling clay, painted to match after installation. The original stuff that was removed was placed in a carefully sealed box and placed in the trunk, all just in case the car was shipped back to Europe.

The rule I go by is "anything that has a CARRERA script is cool"

Good Luck!