Metalworkers, what am I doing wrong?

[Zeke]

My car is outside. The ground is saturated from rain, humidity is 100%. I have many bare metal repairs from this summer's and fall replacement of the suspension pan, longitudinals, lock pillars and many more little spots. Was waiting to clean the entire bottomside of the car and paint with POR 15, then body schutz, then a nice enamel for looks.



Got caught short with the weather. For the first two weeks of rain, I kept up with the rust forming everywhere I worked. Now, I can't keep up. I'm spraying phosphoric acid on everything 3-4 times a day. Rust appears in 30 minutes. I have some very thin skim coat bondo areas ready for epoxy primer and the rust is crawling under the bondo. Looks like I will have to strip all the prepped areas and start over.

As it is, I'm out in the rain under that cover with tarps draped around the outside trying to finish up the last panel, but it's soaking wet inside coming up thru the concrete and has been for a week. No chance I can paint anything under the current conditions.

What can I do? I'm at wits end. I can't move the car, so don't suggest that.

I have misssed the last 2 POC January DE's due to some bad luck. Can you believe I may miss 3 years in a row due to this kind of luck?

[Porsche Doc]

I thought YOU lived in SUNNY Cal
You got to get in the dry man!
Or you are gona keep chassing your tail.

[RickM]

I can't think of anything short of wax or grease to coat the panels with. If you can't put a coat of Duro Extend-it then maybe a coat of parafin.

Or perhaps roll onto a sheet of plastic, throw a tarp over and put a dehumidifier in there with the car.

I hear you guys are getting hammered weatherwise.

[mb911]

Get a real big dehumidifier No really You are going to wait until it dries out a little. One thing I have learned is primer does not seal out moisture. Infact when bondo is "cut" it will draw in moisture. No real good sugestions

[jbrinkley]

rent on of those big ass kerosene turbo blower things from home depot.

[jbrinkley]

[tiorio]

I feel your pain, I was in the same situ. a couple of years ago...

All my research and info. basically pointed to the following:

If you treat for rust (waxes etc) you have to re-prep everything to get the rust prevention stuff off.

If you don't treat for rust you have to re-prep everything to get the rust off.

You can't chase the rust then zinc primer cause it's too wet to be effective.

I basically chased the rust the best I could for about 2 weeks then sanded and re-prepped and then FREAKIN' PAINTED ASAP. My paint work suffered a bit because of my haste but there weren't no rust at least...

Good luck...

[Argeo]

Zeke,

I am sort of going through the same thing. Car is complete bare metal. When it is very cold, the world is great. If it warms up to say 45 and it is rainy ouside, condensation builds all over the car. Maybe it's the other way around but the car can go from dry as a bone to quite damp overnight. I have decided to just let it do what it does and then sand blast all the light surface rust off before I bondo and primer. Why chase something that never stops.

Good luck.

[Tim K]

I don't know anything about the POR products, but an epoxy primer like PPG's DP90 or Sikkens' EP would be good because I don't believe that the epoxies are porous. Could you not clean up a small area at a time and seal it up before it starts to oxidize again? The areas where you need filler are tough as you need to apply and shape plus leave enough time to fully cure before top coating. This would be another advantage of the epoxies (and for sure specifically the Sikkens EP) is that body filler can be applied over top. You can spray the bare metal and do the filling later.
I feel for you buddy. That must feel like bailing water out of a sinking boat.

Tim K

[Rot 911]

Now you know why body shops don't work on cars outside. If you can't paint right away you need to wipe down the bare metal with oil, which you then have to remove to paint. You are not going to be able to keep up with the rust. I hate to say this, but you are going to have to go down to bare metal again, including the bondo areas.

[john walker's workshop]

get a stack of 2x4s and frame off that carport.

[widebody911]

Weld-thru primer?

[toolman]

DuPont makes a product called metal conditioner #5717. It is an acid that will clean the metal of all the rust and oil. It is mixed 1 to 1 with water and must be kept wet until you wash it off (neutralize) with water. You must then use a phosphoric wash and prime it after it completely dries. Use a good epoxy primer that will have to cure and be sanded before you use a urethane filler primer. Use the por 15 under the car where hidden nooks and crannies could start to rust. It is tough to do body and paint work with out all the neccesities, ie shop, compressor, heat, good spray equipment,.....

[Evans, Marv]

Milt:
I tend to agree with Kurt. But, I was thinking about trying a light spray with fogging oil. Whichever route you go, you'll have to remove whatever you put on the car before you can contiinue.
Good luck!

[RickM]

How about one of those electrical rust preventers?

[doozer]

METAL-READY®



METAL-READY™ provides the best adhesion for POR-15® on any surface, including aluminum and shiny polished metal surfaces. Our simple process gently etches metal, creating an ideal anchor pattern for coatings such as POR-15®, while simultaneously leaving a zinc phosphate coating to insure chemical bonding of paint and steel. Avoid other preps that may leave harmful residues which prevent proper adhesion.

After thoroughly degreasing your work piece, apply environmentally safe METAL-READY® to both neutralize any rust and etch any clean bare metal. This will allow better adhesion of POR-15® or any other paint. METAL-READY® is not caustic, corrosive, toxic or flammable.


http://www.por15.com/product.asp?productid=177

PDF:

http://www.por15.com/uploads/files/metal%20ready%20q%20and%20a%20sheet.pdf


Thanks
Todd


Interesting Facts You Should Know About Steel Before You Paint: In every car manufacturing facility, steel in different parts of the body comes from different production lots, and surface texture varies with the condition of the steel mill rolls which cold roll the steel to its final thickness. Also, surface cleanliness varies with the mill's cleaning procedure, especially the procedures used to control carbon smut. Often, carbon smut is actually baked onto the steel during the high temperature annealing process which follows rolling. This carbon smut is impossible to remove except by mechanical abrasion. Rust varies with the care taken in handling (1) at the steel mill, (2) during transportation and storage, and (3) during fabrication. Steel stored for a long time with rust inhibiting oil will react to form an incomplete oxide known as oil stain. The result of all this is that ordinary steel varies widely in the manner in which it accepts coatings. Although some commercial steel provides an excellent surface for coatings, you are just as likely to find steel which gives poor adhesion and poor rust resistance, even with good coatings. Often the same mill will produce both very good and very poor surface quality, depending upon a number of uncontrolled factors. Nearly all of the above problems can be overcome by using METAL-READY before you coat with POR-15 Rust Preventive Paint. What is Metal-Ready? Metal-Ready is a special water-based liquid formulation that is non-toxic, non-flammable, non-caustic, and noncorrosive. It is an OSHA-approved biodegradable solution. What does Metal-Ready do? Metal-Ready performs the following tasks: 1. Removes rust by dissolving it...metal is left clean & ready to paint. 2. Etches metal to provide a better surface profile for painting. 3. Coats the metal with zinc phosphate to inhibit further rusting and promote better paint adhesion. 4. Improves welding conductivity. 5. Removes rust stains from non-metallic surfaces such as porcelain,ceramic, fiberglass. Is it always necessary to apply Metal-Ready first before using POR-15 Rust Preventive Paint? No. Metal-Ready must be used first before applying POR-15 when 1. Painting on galvanized metal. 2. Painting on aluminum. 3. Painting on stainless steel. 4. Painting on smooth, polished, or new metal surfaces. Should I use Metal-Ready when applying paints other than POR-15? Absolutely...Metal-Ready is an excellent metal prep for any paint. Can I use Metal-Ready to restore rusted tools? Yes you can. Fill a shallow tray with Metal-Ready and put in the tool overnight, or until all rust is dissolved. Should I use Metal-Ready inside my gas tank before sealing it? Yes...assuming your gas tank is clean inside, using Metal-Ready first will insure that you will get the best possible adhesion with your gas tank sealer. Must I wash off the Metal-Ready after using it? Yes. Otherwise, a powdery residue will be left after the metal dries. This can be removed with a wet rag or by hosing it off. After washing off the treated Metal-Ready surface, dry it with warm air (hair dryer) or with towels, etc. Flash rust could appear if the surface isn't dried quickly, but your first coat of POR-15 will remove it and adhesion will actually be enhanced because of the flash rust. Remember, POR-15 can be painted right over rust. Will Metal-Ready harm paint, rubber, or vinyl? Not when used according to directions. Does temperature affect the action of Metal-Ready? Yes. Metal-Ready will work more efficiently when used in a temperature range between 65 and 90 degrees Fahrenheit. What other uses are there for Metal-Ready? Use Metal-Ready on water tanks, plumbing systems, air conditioners, humidifiers, radiators, coffee makers, etc., to flush out rust and lime and chemical buildup; remove rust from brake parts, rims, brake drums, air lines; use to clean circuit boards and die sets. Can I Re-use Metal-Ready? Yes, you can; just filter out the waste periodically to keep it in usable condition.

[KevinP73]

If the budget will allow for it why not consider one of those "car in a bubble" type covers. I used to keep a boat in one and it was fine.

[doozer]

http://www.drivewerks.com/catalog/shopcart/gadg/POR_GADG_carcap_pg1.htm

[Oldporsche]

I understand that you guys are in some sort of a monsoon.

I don't know about Por-15.

I do know about the "Extend" product that's sold by woodhill chemical and/or permatex. This stuff likes epoxy/plastic filler type products. It can be used as a base for bondo on rust areas. It will buy you some time as a coating to prevent rust. Actually it bonds to rust. You can go back in and sand the steel in preparation for bondo and not worry about the stuff lifting and messing up your filler material.

I hope this helps.

David Duffield

[Zeke]

What a day. I've been out there all day finishing up a rear fender that I thought was straight, except when I came in and posted this thread. teh only decent looking panel on the car and it turned out to be a great big bondo sculpture that looked like a fender. I found this out when I cut out the lock pillar.

toolman, I have been doing bady work, first fiberglass and then metal for 40 years. I have the tools. I've never seen anything like this weather. We're soaked.

JW, framing in the carport won't help. Water is coming up, not going down at this point. It will come up in an enclosed area and make it a sauna.

The bubble sounds like a good idea, but I have 18 days to finish this car for the POC deal. No time for bubbles. I have all the suspension stuff and if it doesn't stop raining, I will lay in the water and install it. I'll run the car with a bare metal fender, rust and all if I have to.

It might handle a little wierd, since I'll guess at the alignment and head out. I'm hoping to get that stuff under there painted before all the new shiney things go on. I know the front cross member will be bolted up before the paint is dry and the rest will be going on right after that.

F*** a bunch of rain.