Maximum Power from a 3.2 NA?

[porscheboy16]

I think my '84 911 might be needing a rebuild soon, so I was wondering a few things:
1. What is the maximum displacement (3.6, 3.8?) that can be derived from the 3.2L motor?
2. What is the maximum, reliable (30k miles until rebuild), power that can be derived? Is 300 BHP a pipe dream? This would be with SSI exhaust and Monty Muffler.

Take into account that Turboing/ Engine Swapping, is not what I want info on...Thank you

[Bill Verburg]

Is 300 BHP a pipe dream?

Sure, take your car mix in $15 - 25k and 300 is doable, don't know how streetable it might be. I Think that that the current crop of PCA GT3 911s might be in that ballpark

The list of necessary mods will be quite extensive and include but not be limited to
twin plugs
individual cylinder throttle bodies(or carbs)
engine management(delete if using carbs)
cams
valves
head work
p/c
rod bolts
lots of TLC

[anthony]

If you want 300hp then why not go for a 3.6?

[Milu]

In addition to Bill's post.

I think you would need to increase capacity to 3.8
MAF and a modern engine management system
Backdated exhaust.
That would give a very reliable C275.
Wilder cams and a higher rev limit would take you to the 300 mark but at the price of reliability imho.

Rather than worrying about the horsepower number. What do you want the car to do? Personally for street use I would prefer more torque albeit at the expense of hp. Track - go for the ponies. NB consider that as already posted a 3.6 transplant might be cheaper and easier.

[Carrera3.5L]

Originally posted by porscheboy16
I think my '84 911 might be needing a rebuild soon, so I was wondering a few things:
1. What is the maximum displacement (3.6, 3.8?) that can be derived from the 3.2L motor?
2. What is the maximum, reliable (30k miles until rebuild), power that can be derived? Is 300 BHP a pipe dream? This would be with SSI exhaust and Monty Muffler.

Take into account that Turboing/ Engine Swapping, is not what I want info on...Thank you

1. Here are some common displacement options available for 3.2L owners:

95 x 74.4 = 3.2L stock
98 x 74.4 = 3.4L
100 x 74.4 = 3.5L
98 x 76.4 = 3.5L long stroke
100 x 76.4 = 3.6L
102 x 74.4 = 3.7L

2. Too many variables that need to be taken into account to give numbers. FWIW, here are some numbers from dynojet 248C's:

3.4L tp w/ cams, exhaust, modified plenums, chip, etc - 229 whp
3.5L tp w/ cams, exhaust, modified plenums, chip, etc - 239 whp
(I got an extra 7 whp to 246 due to chip fine tuning on the dyno)

Your results may vary of course depending on the level of modifications and dyno. As suggested, the 3.6L transplant is the better option (both for price and reliability) if you are looking for 300+ bhp while still using Motronic and pump gas.

Ralph

[911mot]

Is 98 X 74.4 with stock heads and cams on 98ron (uk) leaded with properly done chip feasable?
No SSI but sport pre silencer and twin out rear box
Just for a little torque increase for the street not out and high revs hp

[Carrera3.5L]

Originally posted by 911mot
Is 98 X 74.4 with stock heads and cams on 98ron (uk) leaded with properly done chip feasable?
No SSI but sport pre silencer and twin out rear box
Just for a little torque increase for the street not out and high revs hp

Sure it's feasible, that combo was/is the most popular for 3.2L Carrera owners because the larger 98's slip right in without needing to split the case for machining.

Ralph

[masraum]

I have read an article in 911 and Porsche World from several years back where a company called sportwagon systems on the franco-German border takes Euro delivered 3.2L cars, adds a catalytic converter, a genuine Porsche Hot Wire MAF, larger injectors, and a remapped ECU/chip, and bumps the cars 231 hp up to 257. That's still 40hp shy, but it's with a cat. and the stock cam and FI. It does have the increased RoW compression ratio, but I would think that with carbs, cams, bigger jugs, and the correct know how you could get 300 flywheel hp.

Still, won't be cheap, and unless you are really committed you might just be better off dropping a good stock 3.6L in the car. But if the results are as much about the journey as the results then you might want to build a 3.5L car. Maybe go with aftermarket EFI instead of carbs. That might gain you some of what you would be missing by not having the more modern engine. A big part of the benefit of the 3.6L is the more modern setup with knock sensors, higher compression, and a more sophisticated FI and Ign system.

Or I could be way off...

[RarlyL8]

A co-worker of mine has an '84 Carrera punched out to 3.4L that layed down a 292HP on the dyno.

It cost the P.O. $30K in engine and tranny work to make it a fully streetable albiet hyper track monster. He drives this car everywhere and takes it on regular weekend trips to the mountains to slay the dragon at Deal's Gap. Hobbies include embarassing stock turbo owners.

[dd74]

Originally posted by RarlyL8
A co-worker of mine has an '84 Carrera punched out to 3.4L that layed down a 292HP on the dyno.

It cost the P.O. $30K in engine and tranny work to make it a fully streetable albiet hyper track monster. He drives this car everywhere and takes it on regular weekend trips to the mountains to slay the dragon at Deal's Gap. Hobbies include embarassing stock turbo owners.

I love stories like this. Especially the "He drives this car everywhere" part. At least he's using the car and its power on a continual basis, hopefully getting the P.O.'s money's worth.

[RarlyL8]

He found out the limitations of the 915 a couple of weeks ago. A couple of guys in a brand new Mustang GT needed to take a Porsche down. They picked on the wrong one. One beating wasn't enough so they asked for another. My buddy should have let it go. He shucked several teeth off of second gear in the valient attempt (this car actually gets rubber in three gears) causing him to miss the following weeks DE at Talledega. At least we got to take a look in the tranny to see what had been done.

[masraum]

ouch!

How's that go? You've got to pay to play...

[RarlyL8]

He got the car back together the night before the DE. Unfortunately two guys at work called in a no-show. It was not meant to be.
I went ahead with the club guys and had a pretty good time. The driving instructor thought my "under 400HP" estimate was "a bit low" HA! Apparently he's never been in a turbo with a 915 before. It's deceiving.

Back to the topic. This car is strong. Real strong. But I would never spend the money the P.O. did to get it there.

[masraum]

I ran across the article about the company that gets 257 hp by adding at catalytic conv to a Euro 3.2.

http://www.angelfire.com/id2/cameronbaudinet/

It's from our own "CamB"

I hope this doesn't swamp his webpage. I can't even remember if he's still around.

[afterburn 549]

Seems like the Mustang would be ez to take out, least so far none around here that has any snot in it...and all the Nave kids try to whip me Ha Ha Ha Ha ....they have to be in the turbo division b4 for they can be equal.....

[RarlyL8]

The new GT and my freind's Carrera have similar HP levels (~300).
The Carrera weighs less.