2012 911 - Panorama Latest Issue

[jurhip]

Just received my latest issue of Panorama. Did anyone else read the information printed on the 2012 911?

Biggest detail - A high efficiency 7 step CVT may replace the manual transmission!!!

Why? I understand that modern transmission technology can be made superior than a manual, clutch operated unit in many respects (maybe not all), but I for one really like driving a manual daily and I think many will take the "loss" in performance for the increase driving experience.

The 911 is a sports car, and as such, I think there should be some concession made into making the car fun, and not just faster/more efficient. A CVT? Come on.

Perhaps the 911 is slated for GT duty. Hopefully the Cayman and Boxster continue with some driver involvement as I really like the '09 Boxsters.

[Wickd89]

Beginning of the end.
If so, they are pandering to Newport house wives that drive 100K tip cabrios to Trader Joe. I hope they keep the manual for some of the sportier cars. We might have to start looking at Lotus cars..;-?

[vanwyk4257]

I think Porsche has begun to take the "let-them-eat-cake" approach to what they build. They seem to feel the need to cater to the majority of their buyers who unfortunatly are more concerned with image than using the car the way they are intended.

I for one will never buy a Porsche without a manual gearbox. If that means I need to keep driving vintage 911's so be it.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by vanwyk4257

I think Porsche has begun to take the "let-them-eat-cake" approach to what they build. They seem to feel the need to cater to the majority of their buyers who unfortunatly are more concerned with image than using the car the way they are intended.

I for one will never buy a Porsche without a manual gearbox. If that means I need to keep driving vintage 911's so be it.

X2... I mean what's the big deal? I like driving manual... My daily is a manual too and I don't even think about changing the gears... I just do it subconsciously.

They can keep their techno boxes... Imagine trying to rebuild something that complicated? I guess it will be the disposable gear box of the future.

It takes about $1,200 in parts to freshen up a tired 915 and then it's a joy to use. Pure Old School for me.

[vanwyk4257]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

X2... I mean what's the big deal? I like driving manual... My daily is a manual too and I don't even think about changing the gears... I just do it subconsciously.

They can keep their techno boxes... Imagine trying to rebuild something that complicated? I guess it will be the disposable gear box of the future.

It takes about $1,200 in parts to freshen up a tired 915 and then it's a joy to use. Pure Old School for me.

I guess it's too hard to manually shift gears and sip a latte at the same time!

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by vanwyk4257

i guess it's too hard to manually shift gears and sip a latte at the same time!:d

lol.....

[equality72521]

Originally Posted by vanwyk4257

They seem to feel the need to cater to the majority of their buyers who unfortunatly are more concerned with image than using the car the way they are intended.

You just answered the question. As a business why would they cater to the minority? If your goal is to sell as many cars as possible and only 10% want a manual transmission then the obvious thing to do is make auto transmissions.

[vanwyk4257]

Originally Posted by equality72521

You just answered the question. As a business why would they cater to the minority? If your goal is to sell as many cars as possible and only 10% want a manual transmission then the obvious thing to do is make auto transmissions.

If porsche wants to put automatic gearboxes in their cars as an option that's fine, but they had better never get rid of manual gearboxes.

I would equate a porsche with a tip/auto trans to your average corvette owner who wants a shiny "sports car" to impress his friends at the country club, but wouldn't know how to drive it if his life depended on it. I guess it's just a personal issue, but I have a certain level of contempt for people that ruin an otherwise perfectly acceptable car by choosing to put an automatic transmission in it.

[equality72521]

Originally Posted by vanwyk4257

If porsche wants to put automatic gearboxes in their cars as an option that's fine, but they had better never get rid of manual gearboxes.

I would equate a porsche with a tip/auto trans to your average corvette owner who wants a shiny "sports car" to impress his friends at the country club, but wouldn't know how to drive it if his life depended on it. I guess it's just a personal issue, but I have a certain level of contempt for people that ruin an otherwise perfectly acceptable car by choosing to put an automatic transmission in it.

I agree with you but the reality is that most Porsche owners want auto so Porsche gives them auto.

[equality72521]

Most "new" Porsche owners that is.

[myamoto1]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

X2... I mean what's the big deal? I like driving manual... My daily is a manual too and I don't even think about changing the gears... I just do it subconsciously.

My daily used to be a manual, then (while parked) was run over by an tractor trailer. My replacement is an auto and I hate it and I spend about 40+ minutes in stop and go traffic. Thank god the good weather is starting to come, so I can use the Porsche as the daily.

[Emission]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

My daily is a manual too and I don't even think about changing the gears... I just do it subconsciously.

Exactly the same here!

I "curse" my manual transmission about once a month, when I get stuck in really bad traffic. On the other hand, I bought a slushbox daily driver back in 2002. I cursed that auto transmision daily, and finally sold it to my little sister in 2004. Of couse, I got a manual again.

- Mike

[MattKellett]

I think it's also worth noting that this new gearbox technically isn't an automatic or a manual, but rather a clutchless manual that can also be run as an automatic. Or a sequential that can be run as an auto also!!!

Not sure what I'm trying to say, but I guess what will be lost is using your left foot, rev matching etc.... but I think this is going to be the future of sports exotic cars, Ferraris have their F1 system which I believe now outsells the standard manual.

[MattKellett]

Opps! re-reading the OP, I think I am confusing this with the PDK transmission that Porsche offers now.

[yelcab1]

Vote with your dollars. Buy SC

[RWebb]

this all started when they put those dang synchromesh things in thar

and the Eee-lectric starter - that was another marker on the Highway to Hell

[equality72521]

Originally Posted by RWebb

this all started when they put those dang synchromesh things in thar

and the Eee-lectric starter - that was another marker on the Highway to Hell

lol

[Emission]

The OP said CVT.

CVT - Continuously Variable Transmission
PDK - Porsche Doppelkupplung "double-clutch" automatic
Automatic - Traditional fluid coupling torque converter
Manual - Traditional 4, 5, or 6-speed unit

For what it is worth, I think Porsche will offer two transmissions in the future:

PDK
Manual

A CVT is really crappy for performance, even mild performance, as the belt/chain takes time to position itself for immediate acceleration. Go drive the Nissan Maxima, with a CVT, and you will see what I am talking about. Porsche's PDK is as smooth as an automatic, and faster than a human. It is the best of both worlds... and Porsche has not lost faith in the traditional manual either. This is why the GT3 still comes with a stick.

- Mike

[vanwyk4257]

Originally Posted by RWebb

this all started when they put those dang synchromesh things in thar

and the Eee-lectric starter - that was another marker on the Highway to Hell

Don't forget the cupholders, oh the humanity!

[Bart_dood]

Originally Posted by equality72521

You just answered the question. As a business why would they cater to the minority? If your goal is to sell as many cars as possible and only 10% want a manual transmission then the obvious thing to do is make auto transmissions.

I think the issue is that once you move away from your "core" values to chase fickle soccer moms it may come back to bite you in the ass.

Once porsche just becomes another luxury car manufacturer they will enter a snake pit of competition; how long can they hold off the japanese who can make it faster/cheaper/more gadgets/more luxury? How long did it take lexus to compete/beat mercedes and BMW?

Look at the American auto manufacturers; sure people wanted SUV's in the 90's and beyond, so they took out their white flag and waved it at the europeans and japanese and basically said "we give up, we can't be bothered trying to make high quality small cars anymore, you can own this segment of the market".

They poured everything into big SUV's and when market conditions changed rapidly (and they will again, watch gas price inflation when the recession is over...it will reach for the stars) they were screwed.
History is repeating itself again, look at the deal Chrystler is trying to secure right now; Fiat smells blood and is foaming at the mouth to access their dealer network to sell small cars.
Chrystler is so desperate they will sign anything to keep in business, but I'll wager they will live to regret this deal. Fiat will clean up with their cute economical inexpensive small cars and it will become more and more obvious with time that Chrystler is outdated; they will be absorbed and broken up with time.