3.6 conversion/ exhaust question

Darryl Irvine · 02-09-2009, 08:22 PM

I'm in the middle of my 3.6 conversion,a 95' non-vario into my 82 sc. I have searched but cannot find any clear pictures on "flipping" the flanges on my headers. Can anybody tell me exactly where the cut occurs or provide some close up pictures? Thanks.

Jack Olsen · 02-09-2009, 08:42 PM

I don't think you can use your SC exhaust -- although I might be wrong about that. The 'flipping' usually discussed is for adapting one bank of the 993 headers to the 964 exhaust stud orientation.

The common wisdom I've known is that you can use a Carrera exhaust on a 964, or use a 993 exhaust if you flip the one bank of flanges. I would think you can use the 993 exhaust, assuming it came with your engine -- although the cats and mufflers won't fit in the tail of an SC.

midnight911 · midnight911's Garage

Darryl,
what exhaust are you trying to put on your 95? I probably went through the same questions you have and got a lot of help from fellow pelicans...like Jack. I think you are starting to get attention from the right people.
As Jack suggests, the flipping usually involves a 964 motor. 993 HE is considered a reasonable but decent performance header but the flange orientation was different between 993 and 964 thus for 964 motor, you had to flip the flanges.

some descriptions here:
3.6 exhaust - opinions sought

and here:
Muffler for the 3.6 993 HE's SOON!!

my set up is 993 HE with local muff shop custom with cat and roar...

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darryl Irvine

I'm in the middle of my 3.6 conversion,a 95' non-vario into my 82 sc. I have searched but cannot find any clear pictures on "flipping" the flanges on my headers. Can anybody tell me exactly where the cut occurs or provide some close up pictures? Thanks.

The 993 heads have dual pattern stud holes, just remove the studs on the passenger side and replace to suit the exhaust you want to use.

911st · 02-10-2009, 07:02 AM

Bill just made it so easy.

If your SC exaust is a set of 1 7/8's headers it might be worth reusing them. 1 1/2 SSI's or stock HE's I would not.

M&K can make you a muffler that bolts right up to the 993 HE for a very nice set up.

mb911 · mb911's Garage

I have 4 sets of 993 He being machined right now for the flange flip. it really is easy but takes some time. Bill made it very easy though. your next challange will be fitting a muffler under the heat crossover if equiped

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by mb911

I have 4 sets of 993 He being machined right now for the flange flip. it really is easy but takes some time. Bill made it very easy though. your next challange will be fitting a muffler under the heat crossover if equiped

Using the 993 heat cross over is a challange, using a 964 heat crossover on a 993 engine in an early chassis is not

993 engine, 964 heat crossover, B&B headers, right bank exhaust studs relocated to std. pre 993 config

Darryl Irvine · 02-10-2009, 05:32 PM

Guys, I should have been more specific, sorry for the confusion. But I want to keep the stock headers that came with the 993 and just modify the flanges. I eventually want to put on a flowmaster (like Jacks) or put back on the M&K 2 in 2 out muffler, that I had on my 3.0L. I am looking at cutting and re-welding the flanges my self-like in the picture below. If done correctly, is this possible? Where do you cut? BTW not worried about cat or heat .

midnight911 · midnight911's Garage

Darryl,
did you mean modifying the flanges at the muffler side, not the motor side? Usually when you say flipping, we refer to flanges that goes to the exhaust port at the heads.
Modifying flanges at the muffler side requires some work. By the time you are done with cut an weld, you might think you could have afforded a B+B setup etc.
Also if you don't need heat, you should also consider race headers.

Anyways, you can also get away with not modifying 993 HE at all. See if my set up helps.

Darryl Irvine · 02-10-2009, 06:40 PM

Mdnight911,
I wanted to flip the flanges on the muffler side. In researching, it looked like adding a aftermarket muffler would fit easier if this was done. Ultimately, I want to install a 2 in-2 out of some sort, as I have already cut my rear valance. As far as money to do this modification, I own a weld shop so having all the tools helps. I thought it would be fun to just make use of what i already have! but now I am really really interested in your system. What are the two "bulbs" just before the muffler, resonators? Do you think I can make your system into a 2 in 2 out? What muffler is that and is it as loud as the "happy crab" i have been reading about?
Thanks in advance!

midnight911 · midnight911's Garage

i just went to the local muffler shop - who have done some nice work for other projects I know of - and showed my problem and they came up with this solution. I originally told them I don't need a cat but by law any car that roles out of the shop had to have cat. authority has been quite adamant about that they say. works for me as I was thinking purchasing 993 stock cat anyways for smog test which now I don't need.

so what you see right behind the HE are the cats. Magnaflow 59954.
The muffler that follows is 10436.

Also the pipe used was just about right diameter. Not too deep yet gives very dry sound. Quite loud but that's what I wanted. I also took much of insulator out plus I have solid motor/ tranny mounts and those contributed to how loud my car is.

Darryl Irvine · 02-10-2009, 08:11 PM

Thanks for all he replies.

911st · 02-12-2009, 03:55 PM

I saw a piture of a M&K that bolts right up the the stock 993 HE's that Steve and Rensport did for a 993 into a Carrera. I is such a clean simple install that just bolted righ up to the stock 993 HE's. No cutting or welding.

You can alwas sell you used M&K.

Flowmaster is better matched with a good long tube equal length headers like Bill did.

Darryl Irvine · 02-12-2009, 08:24 PM

911STe ,

Hey there and thanks for the advice on the M&K. Everything I have read on 3.6 exhaust / conversions, suggest that they are loud-no matter what you put on them! I have had two of Ben's mufflers so far, I love the sound on my 3.0 l sc, but its right on the line of being too loud, so I'm afraid of putting one on my new 3.6 for this reason. So, I'm looking for something just a little more mellow. Do you think the flowmaster or Dynomax are less loud?

911st · 02-12-2009, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darryl Irvine

911STe ,

Hey there and thanks for the advice on the M&K. Everything I have read on 3.6 exhaust / conversions, suggest that they are loud-no matter what you put on them! I have had two of Ben's mufflers so far, I love the sound on my 3.0 l sc, but its right on the line of being too loud, so I'm afraid of putting one on my new 3.6 for this reason. So, I'm looking for something just a little more mellow. Do you think the flowmaster or Dynomax are less loud?

Basically a Flowmaster or Dynomax are so close to a full race system that they are going to be loud.

Call Ben and talk to him. I belive he can make it more civil if that it what you want.

Amother approach. If less radical were my goal and I could go without heat, a set of 1 7/8's EuroGeorge headers with a factory two in out muffler. They are a great muffler and make very good power for the low noise level they make.

If I then wanted more I migh try to modify it by removing the stock tail pipe to the first bulk head and adding a sport style pipe straight out between the first bulk head and the very end of the muffler. Then add a second one to the passenger side between the last bulk head and the end of the muffler. Then if you want quite, you can cap the passenger side and the other will be like stock. This will match the early factory sport muffler for HP.

Just my two cents worth.

911st · 02-12-2009, 09:10 PM

Sorry, that was a factory 2 in 1 out 1974 muffler.

mb911 · mb911's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darryl Irvine

911STe ,

Hey there and thanks for the advice on the M&K. Everything I have read on 3.6 exhaust / conversions, suggest that they are loud-no matter what you put on them! I have had two of Ben's mufflers so far, I love the sound on my 3.0 l sc, but its right on the line of being too loud, so I'm afraid of putting one on my new 3.6 for this reason. So, I'm looking for something just a little more mellow. Do you think the flowmaster or Dynomax are less loud?

The answer is NO the flowmaster is louder

911st · 02-13-2009, 07:44 AM

bEN,

Do you offer you muffler that bolts up to the 993 HE's?

Are your newer mufflers as loud or can you make a quieter muffler if that is what is wanted?

Thx!

mb911 · mb911's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911st

bEN,

Do you offer you muffler that bolts up to the 993 HE's?

Are your newer mufflers as loud or can you make a quieter muffler if that is what is wanted?

Thx!

Yes can make them and no they are more docile then they use to be and we can make them even quieter if desired

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

I have one (of Ben's) on my 3.4 - it's great