Reconstructing Constant Velocity (CV) Joints

[Tut]

Thanks, Grady.

I purchased M10 Schnoor washers from Schnoor. The real deal. Came in a box of 1,000. Obviously, I don't need all of them. I'll distribute them to anyone who wants them at my cost of 5.4 cents/, plus shipping. Hope the moderators don't mind this little endeavor, but I intend it as a "public service", given that there was quite a bit of discussion about Schnoor vs. belleville vs ?.

[Grady Clay]

Smitty,

I think all 911s ’69 and later have to have the lower shock bolt off. You can loosen the outer CV bolts while still on the 911. The final thing you should do is re-torque everything (inboard and outboard) before you set the car on the ground.

Remember to re-torque after some driving.

Glue the gasket to the recessed surfaces, that will make installation easier.


Tut, I’ll take a few sets. Send me and Wayne one extra washer so we can put our eagle eye on them.

Randy (rcecale), do you still have your damaged axles? Could I sacrifice them for the good of Pelican? I’ll pay shipping.

Best,
Grady

Grady Clay
2321 S. Leyden St.
Denver, CO 80222-6235

[KobaltBlau]

Belleville washers are available from mcmaster-carr:

http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/PSearch2.asp?reqTyp=parametric&act=psearch&FAM=washers&FT_138=63201&FT_294=64693&desc=Belleville+Spring+Washers&sesnextrep=532650883005965&ScreenWidth=1280&McMMainWidth=1073

is this sufficient? I have not read the entire thread.

[Tut]

Grady, how many sets of 24 would you like? Is the Wayne you are referring to our host, or another Wayne?

[Hugh R]

Hi All

Been reading this and other threads and I have a few specific questions regarding my 84.

1. When I pulled the CV joints, I had no washer and no moon plates. It appears to me that the 84s didn't have moon plates they use 6 8mm x 50 mm hex bolts.

2. Do they sell moon plates for mine?

3. The face of the flange measures 100 mm in diameter, if that matters.

4. In Wayne's book he says that if large ball bearings fall out (they did) its a sure sign you need new CV joints. Is this true? I cleaned them up somewhat and the balls, the cages and the outer race, all visually appear excellent.

5. Any definitive source on the Schnoor washers for 8mm? I'll measure and put in 8mm x 55 mm bolts if I have to.

Thanks much.

[Hugh R]

I called Pelican and they said my car didn't come with the moon plates, and that 50 mm is standard bolt. If I were to use some other moon plate, then I'll need to buy longer bolts. Randy, any thoughts on No. 4 where Wayne says if the ball bearing fall out you need new CV joints, mine all looked pretty good inside and I'm pretty sure the balls have to come out otherwise you couldn't assemble the things.

[}{arlequin]

while i don't have a fix-your-car book published, i don't think that's necessarily the case. while assembling an axle, when you install the 2nd cv you have to have a way to secure the cv that's already been rebuilt and installed on the other end of the axle b/c they have a *tendency* to fall apart. so i think the fact that they fall apart doesn't always indicate a worn cv.

[Grady Clay]

Hugh,

To answer your questions:

1) Your 911 is in the era where the bean counters eliminated anything they felt excess … like safety washers. The plate washers (moon plates) go with the Schnorr washers.

2) Yes, there are plate washers (moon plates) for the 100 mm Type 923 CV joints. P/N farther up in this thread.

3) Yes, that CV was originally installed with the 912E 4-cylinder. The bean counters deemed it sufficient for the SC and Carrera. Of course after failing and coming loose the CVs were brought back to previous 108 mm spec in ‘87 that had been continuously used with the Turbo, Turbo Look, and 928. There is a lot of this info above in this thread.

4) See above thread. The critical issue when installing Schnorr washers and plate washers is the CV bolt needs to be longer. It should protrude through the flange 1-2 threads (1 ½ is ideal MIL spec).

If you want to update, there are parts to fit the later 928 axle assemblies with the 108 mm CVs. All that is also covered in the above thread. It’s worth reading.

Best,
Grady

[Hugh R]

Originally posted by mike f
Don't hold off on the pliers. They are readily available at Autozone and the like. Made by Lisle Corp(lislecorp.com for pics-PN 30800 ear-type cv clamp pliers). I tried other means of squeezing the clamp tight. and they just get all bent up. With the pliers it's a 30 sec job and it's done right. You've come to far to not finish the job. Good work and perseverance.

Ok, yet another question. One of my boots on my 84 is coming loose, it looks OK inside when I cleaned it up. I don't have those metal bands on my boots, they seem to be inserted into a lip in the body of the CV joint. Can I buy new boots and install them, or am I hosed if the boot comes out?

[Hugh R]

Ok, on further research, it appears that I can buy replacement boots with flanges for my 84 CV joints from PP. I'll add that to the list. It appears, that my car doesn't need/use the banding pliers.

Grady, Randy Webb, thanks for all your help. I'm not trying to pick your brain in lieu of doing on line research, (acutally I've learned alot about the subject since yesterday). I guess that I'm just asking some dumb/obvious questions on a subject that I have zero familiarity with. I appreciate your help very much.

[Hugh R]

Well it turns out Pelican only carries the moon plates for the 108 mm CV joints with the 10mm bolt holes. Any other sources?

[mrdol]

This has been a most excellent topic. After adjusting the valves on my 87 (G50) Cab I found that my outer passenger boot was torn up. I ordered 4 boots from PP and after reading Bently and this thread see that I now need a heavy duty impact wrench, a very large torque wrench to get the axel nut off. I see in Bentley that the nut should be torqued to 339 ft/lbs WOW.

1. Can the nut be removed with the wheel off and on jack stands or do I need to put the wheels back on and put the car back down to get the nut off? Does this nut need to be replaced or can I reuse it?

2. When I removed the CV there were no washers on the bolts only the moon brackets. This seems correct in the diagrams I have seen. Are they only there prior to 87?

Related to this, I had been experiencing the feeling of clutch slippage when going around a corner after coming to a stop. I have a limited slip differential. The wrench who I used to take my car to said that it may be time to change the transmission oil as there are cluch type mechanics related to the LSD. I had my cluch repalced at 87k and now have 128k.

3. Is the slip I was feeling related to the outer CV joint that has the damaged boot or is this a separate issue?

4. Anyone give an opinion on Harbor Tools torque wrenchs and Impact wrench vs Craftsman or Ingersol Rand?

5. Will a 1/2 impact wrench that can produce say 450 lbs of torque be able to loosen the axel nut?

Thanks
Eric

[randywebb]

2. Use the moon plates - search on Grady's name if it isn't on this thread.

4. The top name brand tools will work well for a long time, and can then be repaired. They are less likely to break while spinning and throw peices of the motor across your gut...

5. Yes, but I would use a cheap breaker bar not a spendy torque wrench - it is a precision instrument (OK, semi-precision) - a measureing device. Treat it that way.

[rcecale]

1. You can remove the nut with the wheel in the air if you prevent it from turning. One way to do this is pictured below (This method worked for me. )





You'll want to protect the threads by covering them up with galvanized pipe. I used 2" x 1/2" galvanized nipples I picked up at Home Depot.

You can re-use the nuts.

5. To expand on randywebb's answer to # 5, when I used a 1/2' breaker bar to bust mine loose, I made a cheater bar from a 5 ft. long piece of 1-1/2" galvanized pipe. Popped the nuts loose in no time at all.

Randy

[mrdol]

That is a great idea! Does the driver side have left handed threads or were you putting the nut back on in that pic?

I will try the cheater bar as opposed to the impact wrench for now.

[rcecale]

Both sides are threaded normally...righty-tighty, lefty-loosey. I must have been putting it all back together.

Randy

[rcecale]

Oh...for the record....the idea for the crowbar in the wheel studs was not my original idea. It was something I picked up here on this BBS. These guys are really amazing!!!

Randy

[mrdol]

Ok, I have removed the passenger axel and have removed the inner cv joint. I cannot for life of me get the brass cover off the outer cv joint. It is like it is welded on. Any tips on getting it off? I will keep on using liquid wrench and tapping with a mallet and nylon rod but it has not moved a mm.
eric

[AvonGil]

Well I fixed the torn CV boot last Thursday night. Here is a pictorial of how it went...



Removal of M22 nut with an oxy-acetalene torch, impact wrench and a 32mm impact socket. Pic shows Torn boot and nut removed. Painful boys.

The 6 bolts that hold the CV joint to the diff where removed by putting the trans in neutral and using the impact wrench with a 10 mm 12 point triple square bit. Bam Bam Bam, and they all fly off without having to lock down the axle!


This pic shows the half shaft removed and mounted on vise with soft jaws.




This next part was messy. A c-clip was removed and the center CV joint came apart and off. I cut the boot off and cleaned most of the grease out. Ewww. Yuckky.



Next the new boots where put on. New band clamps where put sliped over the boots and tightened with this fancy too. It crimps and smashes the head down.



Look how pretty the crimp looks!



One thing I learned the hard way was not to put the head of the crimp next to a bolt hole! I had to get under the car and twist the clamp, if it was not for this episode of stupidity it would have been a 100% above ground experience. A few seconds of laying under the car is not bad, I still consider it a success.

[AvonGil]

Yay, fresh boots and new clamps.



The car looks like its taking a leak on a fire hydrant.



Look how far off the ground the car was. The torque wrench I borrowed from my neighbor was gigantic.



I put those fancy schorr serrated locking washers under each bolt head and torqued them to 61 ft-lbs. Ouch. I heard them scream for mercy as I twisted their necks.





Tool List:

Impact Wrench
Breaker Bar
Air Ratchet
32mm Hex
10mm Triple Square (12 point) bit. 8mm for Pre 85.5 carerra.
Fancy Schorr washers. 10mm. From McMaster.com
Torque Wrench. (Look at the size of this thing!)
C-Clip Tool
Cutting wheel (in case you need to cut off stuck CV covers.)
Screw Driver for original c-clip
Scissors. Makes things, slightly less messy.


Here are a few tips:

1 - Cut off wheel might be required to take off caps. They are glued on.
2 - don't put crimp in front of bolt hole
2.5 - buy the crimp tool. It crimps and smashes at the same time.
3 - use impact wrench to take off bolts while in neutral. Very fast.
4 - Man that 32mm bolt is on tight. I didnt have a 3/4" breaker bar, but that would have probably worked better. This might be the make it or break it portion of the project. Make sure you have the means of taking this thing off.



Thanks for the thread its great!