track safety thread - roll call what's the correct approach

[mjshira]

thanks Jake, I will pm you.

I have a roll bar (rs style) and I currently run 964 RS seats but I think I need to get some sparco seats. time to do some research!

[Lothar]

One of the best safety improvements is "fear". By seeing what can happen in a catastrophic event like the C-GT crash, maybe we are all getting smart enough to be afraid, and afraid enough to take safety more seriously.

We all know the types who laugh at DE drivers who wear fire retardant clothing and say, "It's just a DE. Are you playing racecar driver this weekend?" Fear can motivate us to stay within our limits, turn it down a notch or quit for the day when we are tired, and be better students by listening to talented instructors who are hopefully there to keep us safe.

The most dangerous thing in our cars is ego. Remember the quote from Top Gun, "Your ego is writing checks your body can't cash"? I have seen numerous off-track excursions occur when drivers were trying to avoid having to let a car pass. They go a little hotter into the next braking zone, sacrifice smoothness and ultimately get careless and, ironically, slower.

The two things I worry most about are:

1. Being too stupid to be afraid.

2. Being too stupid to ask even a stupid question.

Fortunately, I have the ego thing in check, as I am a rarety in these parts. I am a non-type-A personality, and a damned fast one, I might add.

[drsimonwong]

Our club has these rules:

Helmets- rated AS 1698 (Australian standards)

Clothing- modified classes to wear driving suits to FIA standars
- stock classes to have minimum of natural fibre full length clothing

Fire extinguishers- comply to standards, 900mg minimun and mounted

Safety harnesses- if fitted must comply to FIA and under expiration date

Batteries- blue triangles on external coachwork to mark position

All participants of sprint events must have certification of attending Professional Race School high performance track day for the course.

Simon

[Dantilla]

A while ago the NW region PCA had speed limits at Seattle International Raceway before some safety upgrades were made. Radar to make sure everyone complied.

Registration fell to very dissapointing levels. They got rid of the speed limit, and the program has returned to healthy levels of participation.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by silverc4s
I don't know how controversial this will be, but here goes:
I am (slightly) north of 60 now. I voluntarily chose to cease all competitive driving at about age 52, when my vision gave me trouble for the first time in my life, and I felt my reaction times slowing, at least in my opinion.

.................Everyone is different, I know.

I don't think that is too controversial. But, it's almost like saying you won't get on a bicycle anymore. Now, I won't do things on a bike that I used to, but I think we can all still ride fairly well. At the track, just keep what you said in mind and use experience to your benefit.

Oh, BTW, I turn 60 this year and I'm just getting started in cars. I have raced for years in karts and at many of the tracks where P-car events are held. At least I've seen the track before from something other than the pits. A couple of times even from a tire wall, a vantage point that I would not have chosen readily.

The safety thing (I guess that's what this thread is about ) is not trivial. And the safety gear just keeps getting better. A lot of racers don't; like to move down in class. They just seem to quit. Well, if I had at one time been a top fuel driver, or a F1 driver, you know I would not be in the seat today. However, I do think you and I can go out to the track, drive and not be a danger ot ourselves of others.

But, as you said, everyone's different. And when I embarrass myself, I'll pull in and park it. I believe Paul Newman just reached that point. He said as much himself.

PS, James, thanks for starting this thread. This is where this kind of talk belongs, not on the CGT thread.

[mjshira]

no problem Zeke, that is why I did it. that thread should be about honoring them.

[Jeff Alton]

This is a good thread, no doubt, thanks James.

What do you guys think of built in fire suppresison and battery cutoffs?
Is it needed or will my suit suffice, like I said before I am ready to spend if it is required.

Jeff

[Jeff Alton]

Dantilla, not sure what to think of that.....
I am there on the 20th with Kitch's group. I have a turn 1 speed that makes me happy and feel safe and it is not as fast as my car will go throught there either, by a fair margin! I guess that is why, despitie what you do to your car, your brain is your best asset.

Jeff

[Emission]

Based on the posts in this thread, I put together a short shopping list. Keep in mind, I don't race (and don't intend to). I just attend "track days" and events for fun... but I do run fast...

Helmet Bell M2 $300
Isaac Intermediate $895
Momo "Start Racing Seat" $260
Autopower Roll bar "Street Sport" (52340 H) $420
G-Force 5-point Camlock Harness Set $110

Total $1985

Q: Is the Autopower roll bar a true bolt-in? How much cutting (if any) will be required?

[lateapex911]

Good list Emission...

The Autopower roll bar I got for an old car resulted in my having to cut some plastic panel and such, but only in the rear, the feet through bolted to the floor. I think the 911 version is similar, and the mods are fairly minimal. The bar isn't the best in the world, as it leaves a little room around it's perimeter, but it's great for DE events. If I were getting one, I would call them and see if they had removable diagonals and removable harness bars, so the rear seat area can still be used easily.

My view on the fire thing is a bit different. I like a handheld, as I prefer to use the extinguisher only where it's needed. As a final step, the main system can be used, if all else fails.

I like to have the main system have it's outlets where the fire is likely to start, and I'm not crazy about pointing one at myself!

Regarding the batt kill switch......if the club hosting the DE requires it, I might pass. I have one on my race car, and I am not sold on teh benefits. I see it's use by corner workers as a way to kill the engne in an incident, but it adds a lot of wire and they are notoriously unreliable. I'd leave it off.

[Brother]

What is the Isaac Intermediate? A suit?

[Emission]

Originally posted by Brother
What is the Isaac Intermediate? A suit?

Head/neck restraint that uses shock absorbers to keep movement during an incident to a minimum.

http://www.isaacdirect.com/

[efhughes3]

The Autopower is a bolt-in. I have an RS-type interior except I did keep the rear side panels. I had to trim them some. If I still had the rear deck panel in, that would've needed cutouts too.

It is better than what I had before, which is nothing, and is how I opted to go to install 5 pt harnesses, as I didn't like what was available as a harness bar for Targas.

The rear seat area can still be used for storage of stuff when I go to the track, but I didn't use my seats as such, so no loss there.

I've got a question....What does the neck brace (donut) such as that offered by G-Force do as far as a neck restraint?

[mjshira]

sounds like we have a lot of good info here. I think what is clear is that there are lots of options for being safe available to us. let me check the concensus here:

1. helment
2. rollbar
3. race seat (or one rated)
4. restraints
5. fire system (bottle or total system)

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Two things nobody seems to have mentioned (well, one was mentioned in passing):

A proper seatback brace, so that if you hit something going backward (sound familiar?) the rollbar/cage horizontal bar won't break your back. I don't care how "FIA-approved" the seat is, if it comes loose that bar can do dreadful damage.

Proper mounting of the submarine strap of a five-point. I think the way most people have them mounted does more damage than help.

Stephan

[mjshira]

good points Stephan does anyone have some pics of a proper install of restraints?

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

I'd like to see pix too, since I think mine is an offender. The sub strap goes over the front of my Recaro seat and then down and moderately aft to a well-supported eyebolt. I think what you're really supposed to have is a seat with a hole in the seat cushion to afford the minimal possible distance between harness central buckle and sub-strap anchor.

Stephan

[mjshira]

Stephan, this might be a good subject for a short book. Something about how to make your 911 safe for racing?

[PorscheGuy79]

Originally posted by Formerly Steve Wilkinson

A proper seatback brace, so that if you hit something going backward (sound familiar?) the rollbar/cage horizontal bar won't break your back. I don't care how "FIA-approved" the seat is, if it comes loose that bar can do dreadful damage.

Some kind of photo of this would help as well.

[David]

All the safety equipment is important, but I think seat time is the most important. This is why I got into kart racing 5 years ago.

My first day on a big track with my kart I went to pass another kart at the end of the straight away at close to 100mph. I planned to move over one kart width for the pass incase there was another kart about to pass me. Instead I moved over about 3 kart widths and was about to be passed. Luckily the driver passing me was experienced and didn't hit me. Karts are more forgiving than cars but they teach you how to make very small adjustments at high speed.

There's one older guy I race with who could probably afford any car he wants. I wonder if he's using karts as a steeping stone to a big hp race car or for DE's in his 996TT.