Optimoly HT antiseize -- source?

[patkeefe]

I'll go along with Cory on this; it's what I was told back in school.
Alternately, use the farmer method...tighten it until it squeaks!
Pat

[Brando]

With Anti-Sieze Compound: Add a few ft/lbs to your torque wrench.

Without Anti-Sieze Compound: Never get the damn lug nuts off.

Hmmmm...

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by Brando
With Anti-Sieze Compound: Add a few ft/lbs to your torque wrench.

Without Anti-Sieze Compound: Never get the damn lug nuts off.

Hmmmm...

Actually, compared to using no antisieze, you would reduce the torque applied. Since up to 80% of the torque applied goes to overcoming friction, lubricant will reduce the torque necessary to get the same amount of bolt stretch.

The only downside of using antisieze on the lug nuts (that I can see) is that you need to keep the the nuts out of the dirt when changing tires. Otherwise, dirt will stick to antisieze.
-Chris

[911pcars]

Electrolysis. Perhaps not so much with steel against steel, but in a pcar, you have two dissimilar metals (Al and Fe). Add moisture and road salts, without antiseize between the two, and over time, material will transfer, gall and/or corrode and prevent the parts from separating.

And that's besides any torque irregularities.

MHO,
Sherwood

[sammyg2]

Here's some real information that is based on engineering standards:
Suppose you were torquing a bolt or nut, the torque is determined by stress area, bolt tension, and friction factor. The type of lubricant determines the friction factor. The higher the number the more torque you would need to apply to get the same bolt tension. Here are a few examples that do not directly reflect on 911 lug studs and aluminium nuts, they are for comparison only to show friction factors of various versions of anti-sieze. The numbers reflect the amount of torque to obtain identical bolt tension:
Dry lube with disc washer-72#
Molybdenum disulfide - 66#
Moly/Lead oxide/graphite paste 82#
copper/graphite paste 92#
Nickel/graphite paste 99#
API SA2 K=.157 103#
machine oil 132#
dry steel 290#

Note how much more torque is required for dry threads. This is one reason I don't believe in re-torquing engine fasteners after 500 miles, the friction factor has changed dramatically after that many miles so you don't get reliable readings.

Anti-sieze isn't normally chosen because of it's friction factor, it is chosen because of it's ability to prevent galling of threads.

My point? I guess it is to show that anti-sieze DOES change the torque especially when compared to dry threads, as in it requires 1/3 of the torque with anti-sieze when compared to dry to get the same tension.

[Jack Olsen]

Well, this is becoming more interesting. I change wheels very frequently, so seizing has never been an issue. Using the impact wrench to pull them will be more convenient, but I don't want to apply inappropriate stress to the studs themselves. They heat cycle a lot, and are not young. If one of those breaks at 130, it could lead to big problems.

I use steel lug nuts. If Porsche recommends using anti-seize with them, I'll use it. But if I need to start setting my torque wrench to something other than 94 foot pounds, I'd like to know.

Maybe someone could dig up the technical bulletin so we can see what the company line is?

[randywebb]

I don't have a copy.

Sammy - what everyone is missing in this is that the specific item mentioned may well not be the same as older anti-siezes or other types. I don't know, but my understanding is that some chemical companies have found a way to put crystaline structures of some sort into various products. That might be involved here. Also, my chemistry degree is just a Bachelors and it was eons ago...

[sammyg2]

I suppose they could develop an anti-sieze product that had a high coefficient of friction to mimic dry threads, but I've never heard of a product like that.

I checked my factory manuals, no mention of lubricating the lug threads at all, the only mention of anything about the lugs was to torque them to 94 ft. lbs.
I found an article for the 996 lug nuts, it said to lubricate the threads but not the ball seat. Weird.
I'll have to check my owner's manual when I get home to see what it recommends.
I wonder what the 914club.com board has to say about this topic? (hint hint)

[RoninLB]

PANO August 1972

"Alloy lug nuts should never be installed or removed with an impact wrench. ...... with the threads and radiused seat well lubricated...... "

[RoninLB]

Below is from a search using "lug nuts"

Trivia...Charles A Stoddard said "As always, the lug nuts securing the wheels should be lightly lubricated on the radiused face and threads".........Ron



As per the instructions on my newly purchased (at the dealer) anti theft lugs:
"lightly grease the threads and cones, tighten to 130 NM"
GeorgeK



From the '84-'89 factory manuals:
Page: 44-6
Removing and Installing Wheels on Car

1. Use special tool P 300 in perfect condition. (everyone has one, right?)... Never use impact tools.
2) Lubricate threads and nut contact base with Optimoly TA.
3) Always tighten nuts to specified torque of 130 Nm (94 ftlb).

I could not find a similar reference to Optimoly in the earlier manuals. All torque specs were for 94 ft/lbs though.

Scott

[patkeefe]

Quick:
Somebody run down to the dealer with a lug wrench and see if the studs and nuts are lubricated.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by patkeefe
Quick:
Somebody run down to the dealer with a lug wrench and see if the studs and nuts are lubricated.

fwiw.. there was a post that said the new p cars have silver plated lug bolts to eliminate the use of lube because some jerks wound up smearing enough lube for it to get on the rotors.

[rick-l]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
I don't recommend using anti-seize on your wheel nuts.

-Wayne

In the workshop manual for my 88 - WKD 482 020 under wheels , tires, alignment Volume 3 page 44-6 it says lubricate threads and contact base with Optimoly TA. The local Porsche shop told me that was run of the mill antiseize.

[911pcars]

"fwiw.. there was a post that said the new p cars have silver plated lug bolts to eliminate the use of lube because some jerks wound up smearing enough lube for it to get on the rotors."

May be true. Don't know, but how would this prevent the same jerk from smearing enough lube for it to get on the rotors?

I'm always thinking "lowest common denominator". It's my job.

Sherwood