VIN Experts - Do I have a '65 or a '66 911?

Fidalgo911S · 07-21-2005, 06:44 AM

Here's the deal:

Bill of sale is 25 November 1965, London, England
VIN# 302947
Engine# 903154

According to the 'Red Book', 'Original 911', and Stoddards reference catalog, the VIN corresponds to a 1965 911. But the VIN plate lists the number and then has a '66' after it. Plus the color code is 6602 - Polo Red - a '66 color.

So what do you think?

Fleming · 07-21-2005, 08:44 AM

Fidalgo,

Just where on your VIN Plate are you reading the "66"?
If it is in the upper right hand box after the word "Heizinrichtung Typ" "911~~S 66" if so, that is the heater type and classification.

The S in that box has been wrongfully used to justify a standard 911 as a early "S" car.

The serial numbers from 300 236 thru 303 390 are both the 1965 cars and 1966 cars made in year 1965. Porsche started production each September for the following Model year (as did all car manufactures to fill the pipeline with new cars prior to the calendar change) with the exception of this first year of production of the 9 series cars when this change over was between June and July. Watch the definition of "Year of build" and the "Model year". Not all of the serial number range lists are each. The numbers above are for the year of build (Jan 1965 thru June - 1965 Model year cars and 1966 Model year cars from July thru Dec). This info is from the Stoddards listing and published in Dr. Bret Johnson book.

Depending on which country your car was first licensed it could have been registered as either a 1965 or a 1966 (65 year of build or 66 model year). The US DOT did not recognize the 900 series cars until 1966, all 1965 Porsche cars offically imported to the US were still 356. (As a sidebar, one 1964 901 was registered in California as a 1968 - the year it was brought into the US.)

I don't know of any study or listing as to when the serial number/paint codes change from 64xx (1964 and 1965 cars) to the 66xx (1966 and 1967 cars) but if your car rolled off the assembly line in July 1965 it would more than likely have 1966 model year color number.

It would be great if you post this question to as many boards as possible to bracket those cars near yours as to when the paint code did change. The 356 Registry has been doing this for 30 years and every year new quantifing info is published. We haven't had the forum (or interest) to look this close at the early 911/912 cars. But, with this Pelican Site we now have the opportunity.

Bob
300 149 (one of those 1965 cars made in 1964)
306 956S (one of those 1967 cars made in 1966)

304065 · 09:50 AM

'65

302943 is a '65
303179 is a '65

Can you please describe, or even better, post photos of:

Starboard inner fender, shock mount, and washer bottle (if there)
Horn grills. Two or four holes?
Solex Carbs
Dash top attachment, are there four pins?
Nadella axles? Or converted to modern Lobro type?
'911" logo on glove box?
Steering wheel butterfly and rim?

These little details are the critical pieces of information, a lot of the serial number changeover points for these items are unknown.

Signed,

owner of 304065 (901/5 engine with Webers, two hole grilles, front mounted washer tank and adjustable strut tops and plenty of Fe203)

Fidalgo911S · 07-21-2005, 05:17 PM

Requested info coming up. I've got the camera and am going to check. By the way, great stuff thanks.

Fidalgo911S · 07-21-2005, 06:27 PM

Ok, I'll try and answer your questions as best I can.

- The shock mount has two hex bolts fore and aft of the actual shock.
- Four holes on the horn grills.
Updated axles.
- 911 logo on glove box.
- Wood wheel but has the butterfly horn ring.
Engine is a 901/01.
- The "66" is on the plate next to the word "Heizinrichtung Typ".

I'm almost embarrased to post the pictures since the car is soooo dirty. It's been sitting in a garage for many years. In fact, it's logged only four miles since its last inspection - in 1994. But it's all there just waiting to be polished.

Fidalgo911S · 07-21-2005, 06:28 PM

Fidalgo911S · 07-21-2005, 06:30 PM

Oh yeah, the washer bottle is in the forward part of the the trunk, right next to the battery.

DaveE · 07-22-2005, 04:46 AM

That looks nice, Fidalgo! I have a '65 (301368) but it's rusty. Looks like someone put later headlights on yours.

gregk1 · 07-22-2005, 05:01 AM

Fidalgo looks good I have a 66 that sat in a guy's wood shop for 23 years mine had the solex carbs what does yours have?? I also have alot of SWB parts if you need any I have a 67 912 I am cutting up as we speak and I will be at john walkers swap meet with a truck load of early stuff >>>>>Greg

Fidalgo911S · 07-22-2005, 05:10 AM

I also have Solex carbs. But I just purchased a nice set of used Webers I'll use for drivability.

Other commitments are going to keep me from making it to John Walker's this weekend. I honestly can't think of anything my '67 912 needs, right now. Thanks.

gregk1 · 07-22-2005, 05:41 AM

I changed to webbers also, much better driveability

304065 · 07-22-2005, 05:58 AM

Fidalgo,

Thanks for the pictures! Other than the sugar scoops and the wiper blades (black instead of silver) it's all complete, great!

The front mounted washer tank is interesting. The 65's had it mounted int the starboard inner fender. Knowing your number helps us bracket the changeover point!

Greg, what condition are the footwells (areas forward of the floorpans) in the car you are breaking?

gregk1 · 07-22-2005, 08:41 AM

John, Shot! bad rust thru out the whole pan but the rockers are ok and the rear shelf down to the rear seats is ok some rust by te little defrost tubes in rear

Fleming · 07-22-2005, 05:50 PM

John thanks for picking up on this. If I've got this right let me know and if it's not edit it and repost.

All right gang it's survey time for 1965- 1966 911.

If you have a number closer to a change in items put in a comma and add your number.

302943 is a '65
303179 is a '65

Starboard inner fender washer bottle up to #303179 (is this right John?)
Washer bottle next to battery after #302947

Horn grills four holes up to 302947
Horn Grills two holes after #......

Solex Carbs thru January 1966, Eng Typ 901/01 up to #......
Weber Carbs from February 1966, Eng Typ 901/05 after #......

Dash top attachment four button up to #......
Dash top NO buttons after #......

Nadella axles up to .....
Lobro axles after ......

No logo on dash up to ......
'911" logo on glove box after .......

Steering wheel butterfly and rim up to #300149

Windshield Wipers park on Left Side 300032, 300049, 300149

Wipers park on Right Side after #......

Bob

roblav · roblav's Garage

I just purchased a very early 1966 model 911. #303414
Very original - has not been run since 1987. Has:
Solex, Nadella, 2 hole horn grilles, wood dash, wood wheel with butterfly, neat washer bottle that screws to the front crossmember, right side parking silver wipers. I just installed the 40 IDA's that came with my 70S and am hoping to try and start it for the first time this weekend. But I need to fabricate a plate to cover the left timing chain cover where the mechanical fuel pumps were located. And the fuel tank was totally encrusted with crap. I also took apart the fuel tank sending unit and cleaned that up. Nice thread... I enjoy these very early ones.

Fidalgo911S · 07-22-2005, 09:13 PM

Fleming, I can say for sure I don't have those dash buttons.

Rick Cabell · 07-23-2005, 05:25 AM

I just bought the most original 65/66 car I have ever seen. 303 997. Aga blue with red interior! One owner, all the original delivery books, BOS, ect.... Original paint! ( not needing a respray). The car is 100% original, down the the radio delete plate.
This car is as John Cramer described his. 2 hole grills, washer bottle, ect...
Here is my question: As Bob stated above, chassis # 303 390 was the last car built in June of 65. The 66 model year was the first year of world production. ( considering the 66 model was the first year for the 911 in the states). Thus my chassis # 303 997 being the 607th car built after June of 65, one considers that the car was definatly built in the 65 calender year. The books all agree there were 3500+ cars built for the 66 model year. If you do the math, it figures to about 300 cars a month being built. Again, putting my # 997 in the build date of 65 calender year.
The engine # is type 901/05, with webers. The books say that the switch to the 901/05 with webers was not until Jan.66 ? The original owner says the engine has never been out. From what I can see, he is correct. The original BOS , and the inside of the service booklet show the 907276 engine #. Definatly, NO engine swaps.

Rick Cabell · 07-23-2005, 05:28 AM

As far as I can tell, my options are as follows:
gas heater, fog lights,chrome rims with painted center caps. USA lap belts.

Rick Cabell · 07-23-2005, 05:44 AM

Reading Bob's post more carefully, it apears that 303 390 was the last car built in calender year 65, is that right?

Fidalgo911S · 07-23-2005, 05:52 AM

I have an additional question for those of you that switched to Webers. How did you conect up the fuel lines?

The Solex's have input from both the Bendix and the engine-driven fuel pump. I believe the Webers have only one input (I don't feel like climbing into the attic to look). Do I need to somehow mate the fuel lines as a 2-into-1 system and connect to the Webers?