VIN Experts - Do I have a '65 or a '66 911? - Page 2

Fidalgo911S · 07-23-2005, 05:58 AM

Rick, we'd love to see a picture of your car.

Rick Cabell · 07-23-2005, 06:04 AM

Everything is coming into prospective now. I just removed the "orignal" front hood shocks, dated 2/66.
I post pics ASAP.

Fleming · 07-23-2005, 07:27 AM

Rick according to the Stoddard info and reprinted in Brett's book the last car made in year 1965 was 303 390.

The change over from model year 65 to model year 66 was on June/July. A total of 3155 cars made in year 65 with half before and after - if we were to guess (and this is a big assumtion) that would have placed the change at (or near) car number 301 812 as the last model year 1965 car.

Congratulation on the 1966 find. Rick you'r the perfect person to have this car. Yes, please, we know you will document all the parts dates, the back side of the dash will give up a ton of info with build dates for guages and wiper motor (usually protected and still readable). Those secret of the inner circle (product build dates) should reveal a very close build date.

Way cool, Rick. Pic's yes lots of pic's (What's BOS?)

Bob

Rick Cabell · 07-23-2005, 07:55 AM

BOS = Bill of sale
I'll be back later, replacing the shift bushings, and then out for a ride!

semjon · semjon's Garage

Quote:

Starboard inner fender washer bottle up to #303179 (is this right John?)
Washer bottle next to battery after #302947

Horn grills four holes up to 302947
Horn Grills two holes after #......

I've got 302831 (December '65) and it has the washer bottle next to the battery and 2 hole horn grilles.

Further more it has chrome wipers witch are parked to the right.

Hope this doesn't make it anymore confusing

304065 · 07-23-2005, 09:56 AM

Another "tell" for production date is the oil pressure sender.

304065 · 07-23-2005, 10:04 AM

Well, if I understand you correctly, you would remove the engine-driven pump and cover the hole with a blanking plate. I bet you could find one from one of the early weber conversion cars.

The fuel line comes out of the frame rail and goes into the bendix pump, then into a fuel line that makes a wye, one branch feeding each weber.

304065 · 07-23-2005, 10:06 AM

Not a '66, actually Chuck Stoddard's '67S, but the best photo I could find of a Weber fuel line.

Fidalgo911S · 07-23-2005, 11:16 AM

John,

My '67 S had a machined plate that was flush with the engine where the engine-driven pump was supposed to be. I didn't know you could just cap it off. It looks like Stoddard's '67 S has a cut out cap bolted into place. That looks to be the ticket. Thanks, great picture.

Nate

Fidalgo911S · 07-23-2005, 11:23 AM

10/65 on the oil pressure sender.

Axis11 · 07-23-2005, 12:34 PM

Hey guys - It's great to see the early guys band together.
My car mimics John's except it has 1966 production numbers and a 67 title.

304784; 908029 901/5 engine with webers.
2 hole grilles; front (driver's side) mounted washer.
Butterfly horn; oil sender date 3.66
The timing chain cover area where the early solex fuel pump was has the outline present but the opening and bolt holes are cast over.
Updated axles, and 911 logo on the dash.

Although this doesn't help you figure out your earlier question, it's more info to add to the pile...

_Tim

Fleming · 07-23-2005, 07:50 PM

Fidalgo, I'm a little embarased to post this Rube Goldberg plumbing after seeing the sano Stoddard engine.

Here is the weber conversion from Solex on my early car. The line goes from the fuel pump, filter, pressure regulator, "T" and soft lines to the carbs. It's just another point for reference.

The mechanical pump block off is a plate similar to the Stoddard engine. I took a rubbing of the shape and a machinist made the plate from 1/4" aluminum.
Bob

bonzo · 07-25-2005, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Axis11
Hey guys - It's great to see the early guys band together.
My car mimics John's except it has 1966 production numbers and a 67 title.

304784; 908029 901/5 engine with webers.
2 hole grilles; front (driver's side) mounted washer.
Butterfly horn; oil sender date 3.66
The timing chain cover area where the early solex fuel pump was has the outline present but the opening and bolt holes are cast over.
Updated axles, and 911 logo on the dash.

Although this doesn't help you figure out your earlier question, it's more info to add to the pile...

_Tim

Mine came shortly after yours, also titled as a '67. 304879, 908047 901/05 with webers. Oil sender also dated 3.66. Just as you described yours but I don't know about the steering wheel as mine does not have the original. A little more info for "the pile".

crayford · 07-26-2005, 05:00 AM

I just checked the guide to authenticity and the 66 model year runs from june/july 65 until june/july 66 and the numbers run from 303391 - 305100.

If this is correct isnt it likely that Ricks car could have been built late in the 65 calender year?

303391 - 305100 are the numbers for the 66 model year not the calender year.

Fleming · 07-26-2005, 08:54 AM

Crayford, the Johnson book is a reprint of the Factory Info that appeared in both the little spec book and in the 1982 Stoddard (Silver) Catalog No. 782. There is one character missing when printed in Brett's book, the semi-colon after the word "Jun" which may have changed the meaning.

Hopefully this is what was the original intent-
Year of Manufacture 1965
Model Year 1965 from January to June; (Model year) 1966 from July to December. 300 236 - 303 390

This does not break out at what car number the model change occured between june and july 1965.

With more numbers being posted here we can get a better look at this. The paint code may be a very good way to see if the cars are identified as paint code 64xx (1964 and 65 cars) and 66xx (1966-67 cars). We will see.
Bob

crayford · 07-26-2005, 09:19 AM

I've got all three of those spec references, I'll take a look, thanks. This interests me a great deal as I'm going to see an earlyish numbered 66 car in the next couple of days.

Fidalgo911S · 07-26-2005, 12:32 PM

Fleming, if I'm reading the chart correctly, which I think I am, I can assume my VIN# 302947 is indeed a 1965 911.

Am I right?

Fleming · 07-26-2005, 03:18 PM

Made in 1965 - but a Model year 1966 Porsche 911.

Without the factory saying the car number for the change to Model Year 1966 we can only make an educated guess.

At the begining of 1965 the factory line was producing 5 to 9 cars a day. January 1965's total production was 137 cars. So the build up of cars per day was increasing each month and with the model year change at the end of June that doesn't leave a lot time to produced a vast number of cars. But as the factory wound down 356 production the 9 series took over the assembly line. That's why I am speculating that the change was conservatively around 301 812. (1/2 of the years production numbers in six months or 302 cars per month average). (The factory annual holiday in August and closed the last week and a half for christmas holiday in December would offset the slow run up in production back at the first of the year).

Chassis # 302 947 I would guess a production date of about the end of October 1965. Definitely into the Model year 1966 by about 1100 numbers. Your color number of 66xx adds more importance.

If we know of anyone who took factory delivery around this time and have their numbers we can start to get a better fix on the change over number from Model year 1965 to model year 1966.

Your adding great information guys....keep it coming.

Bob
300 149, Model year 1965 made in 1964
306 956S, Model year 1967 made in 1966

Fidalgo911S · 07-26-2005, 04:38 PM

Ok. Good info to know. Thanks for the research and response.

Fidalgo911S · 07-26-2005, 08:56 PM

99,

It's been great getting the recent information about the early 911's on this thread. I have a question though, isn't a lot of the information brought to light run counter to what is being published out there? I mean Morgan's "Original 911" and Paternie's "Porsche 911 Red Book" have different chassis numbers for the '65 and '66 model years than what we've been discussing on this thread. Does that mean a lot of what is published on model years is incorrect? Right now there's someone selling their "65" 911 (#303288) in Pano for $39.5K. Based on what we've been discussing, that's a '66.

Who's correct? I may be getting bogged down in the details, but that's what makes it fun right? What's the answer? A major re-write of the books or can we say for certain that a '65 911 ends around 301 812.

By the way, the trunk carpet in #302947 is the square weave that was supposedly discontinued for the '66 model. It seems there is no right answer.