Close Call - Check This Out

[evill]

I was driving my 77 911 home from the office today when I had a mechanical failure and near disaster. I was traveling approximately 75 mph, when traffic slowed suddenly. I applied the brakes fairly hard,but not panic stop hard. As I slowed, I felt a pop in the steering, the car darted to the left, the wheel(s) locked billows of blue smoke and I had no control of the steering. The left side tires were riding against the divider curb, steering the car and keeping me from crossing into the express lanes on RT-80. I stopped and got out of the car to find the drivers front tire pointing out to the left, the steering wheel and right tire were pointing straight. The drivers tire was also pressed backwards into the rear of the wheel well.
Luckily, 2 guys in a flatbed, who were checking out my car as I passed them, saw the whole thing and stopped to assist me. We loaded the 911 onto the flat bed and got it home.
While it was still up on the flatbed, I looked to see what went wrong. I thought a tierod had snapped,although they are new 930 types. What I found was the front torsion bar mount tore out of the under carriage. The metal is clean fresh and shiney, no rust or rot. This car has only been on theEast Coast, in a garage, for the past 3-years. It came from San Francisco, where it spent it's lifedry nad rust free.

So, have you ever seen this happen before?

How do I fix this correctly? I can weld them backk in, but I want to attach them to all the support layers, not just the bottom one.

Advice needed and appreciated here.

Thanks,
Ed

[MovOvr1]

Wow!! You are one lucky guy! (Not just for having a Porsche!!). Glad you or the car was not badly injured. Just put some ducktape on it and itll be jus fine!!

Brian
79 930

[Dan in Pasadena]

Yikes! You are a lucky man. Your experience has me "sucking seat covers" as the expression goes because I have a new (to me) '76 S which I have basically not driven at all as it has been in the paint shop since I bought it.

Hope this can be easily, economically and most of all safely repaired. Any unusual warning signs that you recognize in hindsight? Pulling, noises, odd handling? I am VERY curious.

[evill]

No warning at all. All my suspension is new, t-bars, sway bars, tie rods etc..

The car has been smooth and tight, it couldn't feel any better. This why I am so surprised.

The only thing that I can think of, is when I got the car, it was very low in the front. The struts were bottoming out. I just recently raised it and removed the thick spacer washers. It cured the bump steer and gave a nice smooth ride.

I suspect the stress from the bottoming out may have caused the A-arms to stress and flex at this mount area fatiguing and weakening it.

Ed

[GIBSON]

Man, you're living right. That could have been really nasty.
Could it be suspension bind in the rubber bushings that eventually caused the fatigue? Just guessing here. Any history of
previous front end damage and could have caused a mis-alignment of the A-arms??

[evill]

Nope, no accident damage anywhere on this car.

I'm stumped here.

Ed

[david c.]

I've seen an a-arm break loose like that once before on a 2.2T that had a pan replaced. The welds broke at an autocross.

[2.7RACER]

Am I seeing stripped bolts in both pictures? The bolts are new looking. Has someone recently been working in this area and possibly replaced old bolts? If the bolts are indeed stripped they are obviously part if not all of the problem.

[evill]

All of the suspension was rebuilt / replaced just prior to my purchase of the car. The bolts look new in the pics, in person they just look clean factory cad plated bolts. the undercoat material is soft and pliable, when you scrape it away, bolt heads and paint look like new. The bolt heads are not stripped.

The metal looks twisted around the holes, I wonder if they were over tightened and damaged.

Ed

WOOOW Maybe I should have my front suspension checked! Just for peace of mind.....

Good thing nothing bad happened.

[Imcoz]

Stiffer t-bars, less give in torsion, more stress on the anchor points, like the front cap... either that or the svitzur valve... and i know what you're thinking Ed...

[DaveE]

It looks like the threaded inserts from the suspension pan pulled out with the bolts. Is it the original pan or a replacement? I've heard of replacement pans with just a few spot-welds holding those inserts in.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by DaveE
It looks like the treaded inserts from the suspension pan pulled out with the bolts. Is it the original pan or a replacement? I've heard of replacement pans with just a few spot-welds holding those inserts in.

Jeez, I thought I posted on this. I don't see my post. That's exactly right, the welds for the inserts on the replacement pans looked weak to me and I welded them up some more. I wonder if the moderators pulled it because of some issue. I'm sorry if I tresspassed, but if there is a problem here.........

EDIT: There are two threads on this. I did psot in the other one. Evil says the pan is not new.

[Westy]

Check the rest of the pan seam and see if this was a replacement. It's a misnomer that the car came from SF so it's not rusty. The fog carries in salt air virtually everyday. I lived there for over 20 years, and I guarentee, cars rust routinely, just not as fast as the East Coast.

[Vintage911Racer]

Check this thread out. I almost had this same dissaster. I found it before it came a big problem.

Need Help Fast

[Chuck Moreland]

Looks like you have polyurethane bushings. I can tell this because it is sliding off the control arm, whereas the factory rubber is bonded and will not come off so easily.

The polyurethane bushings get dry, they seize up on the suspension, and the mounts tear away. This has happened to several other pelican members including Mark as in the link posted above. Similar failures where documented by Widebody911 and Craig911.

After repairing the mounts, be sure to get rid of the root cause.

[evill]

Chuck, the bushings are the stock rubber ones. It did slide up on the end of the A arm though.

I will go over the front pan thoroughly this weekend and inspect every square inch of it. I have done auto body and restoration work for most of my life, I am qualified to determine if parts have been replaced or if accident damage exists. These seams around this panel appear to be original and untouched. I will double check and confirm this, but at this point I'm sure that it is original. I looked into the holes last night with a light and mirror, the metal looks sound and not signs of rust. There was some surface rust on the very front nut insert though.

I wounder is the car was ever tied down too hard during transport by this area. It is where the tow hook is. Maybe when it was delivered to the East Coast a few years ago it was tied too tightly at this joint, compromising it's integrity. I've put about 3k miles on it since I've had it.

Anyway, I will do a thorough inspection and report my findings to the list.

Thanks again for all the advice so far,
Ed

[evill]

Originally posted by Imcoz
Stiffer t-bars, less give in torsion, more stress on the anchor points, like the front cap... either that or the svitzur valve... and i know what you're thinking Ed...

I thought you put a new Weltmeister Svitzur Valve on it for me before I bought it?

Oh, and you "don't" know what I'm thinking.

Ed

[pwd72s]

One possibility not mentioned yet...counterfeit fasteners. The thought has always nagged on me since Ed Mayo wrote of running into (dealership supplied) counterfeit rod bolts...

[sammyg2]

Ed, if you turbocharged that car it never would have happened.
Is it just me or is anyone else thinking that J.D. sabotaged it to keep you from passing him on the track?
(inside joke, and hoping I'm thinking about the right Ed. Otherwise I'm gonna look real stoopid)