3.6 Exhaust Solution - a la Triad

[Mike Feinstein]

With my conversion more than 2 years old, the only remaining "issue" has been to find/make an exhaust system that suits my need for a relatively quiet system that still makes decent power. After a long search and now four exhaust systems, Dave Ellison of Triad-west Performance came to the rescue. I sent Dave my stock cat from which he built a jig to make a complete exhaust system for 993 heat exchangers. He can now make them for Bischoff (oval), or Gillett (round) flanges. I had the system ceramic coated and installed it last night.

Dave's work is exceptional and his attention to detail, patience (with me) and follow-through were all greatly appreciated. The system consists of a "turbo-pipe" (he'll have to explain) which feeds two glass packs. I had 3" tips installed to properly fill out the valence openings. The sound is quiet (but a bit louder than stock) with a subtle, low pitch rumble that really sounds great. There is no drone at all. It's exactly what I wanted.

Performance is very good for a streetable system. I have a track only setup that is straight through, but it's way too loud for the street (for me).

The really good news is that the Triad system now fits with the stock 3.6 heat pipe in place. Countless measurements and phone calls between me and Dave resulted in a bolt-on system that requires no modifications to install. He installed two O2 bungs, in my case, one for the DME and one for my Halmeter.

Here are some pictures of the system:





This next one shows the space between the heat pipe and the exhaust system:



This one probably rings out a few more ponies and will see action on track days only:



For every day use, Dave's solution fits the bill perfectly. I think he can control volume by using different types of mufflers, but you'd do better talking to him about options. Here's a URL http://www.triadwestperformance.com/Products.htm. Dave did not solicit this plug, nor do I have any stake in it. Just a very happy customer who knows the hassles involved in finding the right combination of performance, looks, and sound in a 3.6 conversion exhaust system. A happy customer at last!

A couple more:




I have not dyno'd this system and I don't think Dave has either, but it would be interesting to do some comparisons. Since this is going to be a street setup, I'm not going to bother.

Mike, that looks awesome-very clean install.

[Bill Verburg]

Looks, nice Mike

how does that compare w. th e 2In/2out Dynomax?

I stil don't understand why no one hasn't just run glass packs off the ends like this(only w/ glasspacks not straight pipes)

[Jeff Alton]

Maybe I will try that, what glasspack would I use?

Jeff

[Bill Verburg]

Whatever fits?

[Jeff Alton]

I will do some diggin then.....

Jeff

[Bill Verburg]

Coasts are a particularly nice choice

[dd74]

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
Coasts are a particularly nice choice

Agreed, they certainly are. But what do you do for a crossover pipe? Or do you just go without, potentially losing low-end torque in the process?

[Bill Verburg]

Originally posted by dd74
Agreed, they certainly are. But what do you do for a crossover pipe? Or do you just go without, potentially losing low-end torque in the process?

You are imagining a problem that doesn't exist

[ischmitz]

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
...I stil don't understand why no one hasn't just run glass packs off the ends like this(only w/ glasspacks not straight pipes)

I did exactly that for my first exhaust. It set off car alarms left and right in my neighborhood. People living near me were about to start a donation fund to help sway me into something more appropiate. What pushed me over the edge was the cop that pulled me over and gave me a verbal warning. He was very clear in that he wasn't able at the time to write me a ticket but he assured me it would be wise to take care of it...

[dd74]

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
You are imagining a problem that doesn't exist

Is that sarcasm or a real answer?

[beamonk]

Mike, are you going to Barber this weekend?

[Bob Benson]

I went to Greg Fordahl and asked for the best exhaust system for my 3.0 SC with SSI's, and he showed me half a dozen Porsches in his shop that were equipped with Triad and declared it to be the best for what I wanted, autocross and D/E. I have loved it ever since and I look forward someday to finishing a 3.6 installation with that Triad. It looks great.

[SalazarS2K]

Mike, I just received my triad too and am impressed with the quality of the muffler. How did you get yours to be so "custom" as mine looks quite different from yours. My tips are way longer and the angles of the glass packs also differ. The muffler sounds very Porsche down below 3k, and seems almost quiet in the top end. I also didn't notice any drones which is perfect for street driving. My only issue right now is how the muffler sits from the RS bumper.



If you look at your setup, there seems to be quite alot of space between the muffler and bumper. My RS bumper sits almost directly on top of the glass packs which are only millimeters away like in the picture above.

[Superman]

I've been trying to tell you guys this. Dave at Triad is a personal friend, I'll admit, but Fordahl is right. Many of us in the PNW have been using the Triad final exhausts with great satisfaction. On the website, there is a dyno test involving a souped-up 3.2, I believe. Dave can now produce both kinds of 3.6 exhausts. The non-3.6 units (the longtime flagship Triad exhaust) has some drone just under 3000 rpm, but that does not bother me for two reasons. First, that drone down below is killer-sounding, like a V8, and I keep my r's above 3000 rpm while driving anyway. Above 3500, this exhaust (the non-3.6 standard 2-in 2-out) sounds like an F1 car. Ask anybody who has one. The sound of my car has become fully HALF the fun of driving it.

And yes, our systems need to collect before splitting. Not sure what Bill Verburg is suggesting, but it has long been known that low end torque in enhanced in our engines of the left and right side come together before splitting out to the tailpipes. This Triad system was developed over a fair period of time, has been in its final form for probably fifteen years, and is patented, I think.

As I say, take it with a grain of salt if you must, since Dave is a personal friend. But I am one of many who LOVE my Triad.

[Joe Bob]

Not trying to be pissy....but "I" asked him to build that last year and he said nope...



I even had a few phone calls to him with my idea...told him that he would be able to sell more than my one off model.

Glad you were able to get one....

How much?

THIS is what I went with...custom made at my local muff shop.

[Bill Verburg]

yes, our systems need to collect before splitting.

Absolutly not necessary to collect!


An odd firing engine like a 90&deg V8 will benefit from a crossover because there are always 2 cylinders on one bank that fire cconsecutively.

An even fire engine like a flat 6 does not need a x over or connection between the banks as long as the system is adequatly sized.

Take a lookat the factory race motors, only the the ones like the Cup series that mandated cats retained the merge feature

A typical RSR

[Moses]

I have had five separate custom exhausts on my 3.6 and most were dynoed. First I tried just the stock 993 cat with no mufflers. Good GOD it was loud! Awful really. Felt like an idiot just driving it home. That thing would truly wake the dead.

My second setup was like Ingo's but poorly done with smaller diameter glasspacks. It was brutally loud and restrictive. It was replaced by larger-bore glasspacks on B&B headers (no crossover). Good dyno numbers, brain numbing loudness. Next I tried a used (repaired) 2 in 2 out B&B muffler. Too loud for my taste, also had resonance.

I finally settled on an $85 Dynomax (17725). Beautiful exhaust note. Great dyno numbers. Louder than stock, beautiful rumble, screams like an F1 at high RPM's. Outside the car, it's loud and aggressive. My wife says she can hear the car clearly 1/4 mile away. Inside the car, it's damn near as quiet as stock. I can have a conversation at normal levels even with the top off. I think this is because my exhaust outlets point straight back, not to the side or down to the pavement.

Bottom line? If I were to set up another 3.6 with an unlimited budget for exhaust, it would have an $85 Dynomax.

[ischmitz]

I thought that collect vs. non-collect shifts affects the torque curve. In other words there is an optimum RPM range for each solution.

Mike, when you add the need for a cat to this in CA regulations require to collect (mixing chamber ) into one cat if the engine has only one Oxygen sensor, right.

Ingo

[ischmitz]

Moses,
I agree. Much of my resonance with the glass packs came from the tips pointing down. Now with the tips pointing diagonally away it paints pedestrians with F1 sound when I step on it. Once in a while you see those puzzed looks in the rear-view and shaking heads.