3.6 Conversion Calif. Smog issues

rcollins2867 · 10-25-2005, 04:25 PM

I just finished my 3.6 liter conversion and want to tell anyone and everyone that is considering the conversion, albeit a fun car to drive, however the downfall, What the mechanics won't tell you until your money is gone.....Smog here in California has been hell, my car passed the emissions test due to the $700.00 custom made exhaust system, which allowed me to continue using the 1997 3.6 liter headers and catalytic converters etc., however my car didn't pass the visual inspection once again after spending $3300.00 for a conversion kit, $770.00 for Exhaust, $8500.00 for the Motor, $5000.00 for tranny work and labor for the install a grand total of $17,000.00. All of which makes the car not smog legal here in California, hell I though as long as the smog catalytics were there that I wouldn't have a problem, guess what I was wrong very wrong, The car passed the emissions test however it won't pass the visual test, Also after the smog site put the failed results in the computer system, no other smog station will touch the car, resulting in recommendations of taking the car to the smog refferee, before doing that I decided to try a Smog Diagnostic center of which is supposed to assist in clarifying what it would take to get the car passed the smog test, however I was at that time told that I should have visited with the smog refferees prior to the engine swap in order for them to give advice as to what is required to pass the smog test during the engine install, and was told in order to get my car registered I will more than likely need to put the stock breather components back on the car, which means that some of the $3300.00 conversion kit was a waste of money, I will tell you this, anything that doesn't look stock such as K&N Style or looking air filters, Carbon Fiber accessories, bring up lots of questions. A bit of advice, leave no vacuum lines disconnected or blocked off with screws. If their are vacuum lines that are no longer needed, route them somewhere not visable to the inspector, this is what got me, also as stated if you can keep the stock breather components then by all means do it since I might have to have the stock components reinstalled on the motor, also try by any means to not inform them of a motor swap, because your problems will then become a huge nightmare,,.....If only I had known before spending the thousands of dollars to mechanics, for kits and other crap to find that you can't get the damn thing smogged....Hell for all of this i could have sold my car and bought a 1996 993....an expensive lesson learned, unless you have money to burn, lots of patience, and feel the need to be taken...... be aware......It's been a month and it looks as if i will have to go to the referree soon since the temporary sticker is expiring 10/31/05 spooky......

Rob C

Craig 930 RS · 10-25-2005, 04:33 PM

Calfornia, despite being such a legendary car culture, is brutal on car enthusiasts with regards to modifications.

That sucks.

Funny thing is that I'll bet the motor is much cleaner than the motor that was in the car beforehand......a simple emission test such as the one here in WA State are much more fair in that what matters is the end result: emissions.

I wish you luck. This stuff is supposed to be FUN!

DC_Targa · 10-25-2005, 04:35 PM

It can be a pain but...

California Engine Change Guidelines

Good Luck!

Dennis

efhughes3 · efhughes3's Garage

Any thoughts as to the efficiency with which Calif spends it's tax dollars? B-U-R-E-A-U-C-R-A-C-Y.

DW SD · 10-25-2005, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by efhughes3
Any thoughts as to the efficiency with which Calif spends it's tax dollars? B-U-R-E-A-U-C-R-A-C-Y.

No $hit, what a joke! We have a horrible economy and the state is in debt, yet we spend $$$ in the wrong places. I'm all for a clean environment, but how about evaluating results and not if things LOOK OK? Measure what comes out the tailpipe.

Mike Z should shed some light. Hopefully, he'll offer some advice.

BTW - sorry for your troubles! This is a shame!

Doug

jorian · 10-25-2005, 05:41 PM

"Measure what comes out the tailpipe."

No $hit. That is a bummer. Not sure what the visual test achieves anyway.

ianc · 10-25-2005, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Not sure what the visual test achieves anyway

Checks for components whose effects can not be readily measured by the smog machine.

Quote:

however I was at that time told that I should have visited with the smog refferees prior to the engine swap in order for them to give advice as to what is required to pass the smog test during the engine install

Sounds like excellent advice for anyone considering this upgrade.

Sorry to hear of your troubles...

ianc

mjshira · 10-25-2005, 06:04 PM

when they put my 3.6 on the smog machine it came in within 1% of passing w/o cats! that was with a steve wong chip. recommend you contact him for a chip. he told me the cars run rich from the factory (albeit by smaller margin than older cars but enough maybe in your case to cause a problem)

sorry for your hassel, good luck.

Jack Olsen · 10-25-2005, 06:26 PM

Rob, your first step should have been to talk to the guys here who have already been to the referee. There's a lot of information available here, since a bunch of guys have been through it.

Carrera3.5L · Carrera3.5L's Garage

Sorry to hear that you are having problems after spending thousands on a 3.6L conversion.

A major reason why I built a 3.5L from my 3.2L instead of doing a transplant. No such smog problems for me.

Get your nose dirty, there are ways to get the car passed legally without it killing your wallet.

Ralph

Joeaksa · 07:09 PM

Where did you spend $5000 on the tranny? If it needed overhauling beforehand then that should not have anything to do with a 3.6 conversion. My 3.6 (and most others) have been doing very fine with a stock 915 box and no mods.

Re-read the post a couple of times (would be a lot easier with a paragraph or two BTW) and did not see what model car you have, but simply notching the housing for the sensors is not a big deal, so I am missing something here.

Agree with the above posters and getting with someone who has been there and done that is a large part of the issue, especially in frigging Cali. Reality does not exist anywhere near the smog testing stations in that state...

JoeA

Zeke · 10-25-2005, 07:07 PM

You say some vacuum lines caused the visual fail? What will it take to hook em' up? What can you toss on the motor to get passed this problem? The stock breather? Why is this such a problem? Put it on every 2 years, for chrissake.

I know you are frustrated, but you are sooooooo close.

When my 89 Chevy truck finally bites the dirt, I'm gonna buy something from the 60's. Fuch 'em.

Jack Olsen · 10-25-2005, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Where did you spend $5000 on the tranny?

As I read it, the $5000 figure included tranny work and all the rest of the labor for the 3.6 swap. At least, I don't see a labor figure listed anywhere else.

drums · 10-25-2005, 07:32 PM

Sorry to hear of your problems.
My Early '89 with a 3.6 ['97, too!] conversion goes in for smog this month.
Did you have to go to a 'Test Only' smog station, or was it just a regular smog shop? Somehow, I don't have to go to the 'Test Only' station this time. I had to go to the 'Test Only' station last time and came within 1 part per million of hydro carbon [120 ppm, max. allowed] failure. That was with the 3.2 [180,000 miles].
The trick is to find a station who wouldn't know a 2.7 if they saw it, let alone the difference between a 3.2 and a 3.6 [the vario ram assembly is a dead give away to someone who might have an incling as to what it might look like].
I understand the referees are pretty good. They will listen to reason and will/can approve your car. Do your homework; find out the upper limits of pollutants allowed for each model year [the original and new motors], present it to the referee and chances are that he will approve you. I know a guy who did a 3.0 to 3.2 swap in his and the referee passed him fairly easily.
Good luck,
Drums

drums · 10-25-2005, 07:34 PM

P.S. California Sucks tail pipes!

bigrubberjeep · 10-25-2005, 09:52 PM

I can't tell you by experience, but I have been told that the referees are actually VERY fair, they will tell you exacly what to do to get it up to spec.

450knotOffice · 450knotOffice's Garage

As I understand it, one of the reasons why California wants you to pass both the "sniff" test and the visual test is that they essentially want it to be as difficult as possible to "Pass" older cars due to the fact that their goal is really to get all of the "old" cars off of the road.

The powers-that-be would much rather see you retire your old car than keep driving it, hence they make it as difficult as possible to pass.

If they were only concerned with cars being "clean" then they would not care how a car achieved that cleanliness, so long as it met the minimum requirements for that year.

It's pathetic really.

klatinn · 10-26-2005, 03:56 PM

Hi,

You can say that again about the smog rules here. A while back, when older cars also had to be smogged in CA, a friend of mine converted a carb'd Bug to EFI. He used a modern EFI system, waste spark, with exhaust system converted to cat (original did not have one). He passed late 90's CA tailpipe emissions with that early 70's car. He did not pass "visual" and had to convert back to the smog spewing carb to pass.

Regards,
Klaus

drums · 10-26-2005, 03:56 PM

Hear! Hear! The truth has come out!
It used to be [up until a year ago] that when your car turned 30, it was now smog exempt. That is why your '75 must now meet smog and there is no chance of EVER having it smog exempt [in the state of California]. Hold on to those pre '74 cars!
State officials even declaired [publicly] that getting older cars off of the road was their main objective!
Oh well, the price of living, huh?
Drums

rcollins2867 · 10-27-2005, 12:17 AM

I had gear work done and well as a limited slip added to the tranny, that's why the price was a little high, it makes for fun driving though......I really appreciate all of the supportive comments, this is what makes this fun and palatable, the folks that drive these machines...Thanks folks....Hopefully my tips will help someone else out....