Direction for building my 911

fastbacker · 04:33 PM

Hey all-

I just purchased a half finished street/track project. It's an 82 SC with no sunroof and no engine. It is in the process of being backdated to a 73 RSR with most of the fiberglass panels fit (bumpers, fenders, doors, hood, engine lid, and duck tail). The fiberglass rear flares are not yet mounted and the quarters have not been cut. I may land up going with steel turbo flares.

All of the AC has been deleted. So has the radio, rear seats and rocker panels. The front seats have been replaced with Corbeau racing seats (not mounted). The car comes with RSR door panels and carpet kit. It also comes with a bolt in OG rollcage and fuel cell.

The suspension and brakes are stock.

I ordered a converted 97 Varioram from Steve Timmons (Instant-G).

The car came with a rebuilt 73 915 with no miles which is out of the car.

It came with a 70 row Setrab oil cooler.

The car also comes with Forgeline rims - 9&11X17's with worn racing slicks. I'm not sure if these rims are going to work as it looks like the backspacing may be off - they stick out kinda far. Won't be sure till I get the rear flares on.

Anyways, this is my first 911 and my first street/track project. I want to land up with a slightly uncomfortable street car that I can learn to drive on the track with. I'll probably start off with open track events and DE courses and maybe land doing some sort of club racing (I know nothing of this, though).

I want to keep from doing things twice (or three times) to a minimum and was hoping for some advice on direction.

Thanks-
Craig Backer

Jack Olsen · 10-12-2005, 05:28 PM

I'd make sure the oil cooler is up to the task, and probably get some bigger brakes. Aside from that, I think you need to target making a good street/DE car as a first step.

If you reach the point of club racing, you'll probably want to build/buy a car to match the rules of the group you happen to end up choosing. Guessing the class you'll want to end up in, at this early a point, is a little like picking your future wife's hair color when you're still in grade school.

fastbacker · 10-12-2005, 05:36 PM

What do you mean by a "good street/DE car"?

Thanks-
Craig Backer

Jack Olsen · 10-12-2005, 08:04 PM

Well, you can see a lot of examples of nicely-done 3.6 swaps in the recent thread on the 911 Tech board. With the motor and the width of your car, I'd say pretty stiff torsion bars would be in order, 23/31 (maybe even add helper springs in the back. Big, adjustable front and rear swaybars will help you tune it. Elephant Racing suspension bushings and some Wevo pieces in and around the transaxle will help it survive its battle with the torquey 3.6. Wevo also makes some great 'do it once' rear swaybar mounts and very nice spring plates and engine mounts. Elephant also makes great finned oil lines which would be a benefit with a 3.6, since it has no engine-mounted cooler.

Inside, a roll bar, race seat, harness and fire extinguisher would look good with RSA door panels and lighweight carpet.

That thing will not only be a blast on the twisty Nor-Cal roads, but also a fun toy at Laguna, Sears Point and Thunderhill.

fastbacker · 10-12-2005, 08:18 PM

Great advice. Thank you!

Craig Backer

Jeff Alton · 10-12-2005, 09:36 PM

Or just search Jack a little and take a good look at his car. Seems to me that his car is just what you are looking for! If I was to do it all again ( or should I say when) I will build a wide body rsr replica. My only advice, from experience, is think carefully about how the car will end up when you are finally "done". Spend the money now on good stuff so you do not have to do things twice and three times. For instance, get the brakes that will last through all the possible phases of the upgrades so that you aren't doing it again. Plan very carefully and do a lot of searching (or question asking) before you spend your money.

Cheers,

fastbacker · 10-12-2005, 10:41 PM

What kind of "do it once" brakes should I get for this thing?

Thanks-
Craig Backer

Jack Olsen · 10-12-2005, 11:35 PM

Craig, I'm going to move this thread to the 911 Tech board, where hopefully it will catch the eye of Bill Verburg, who's forgotten more about Porsche brakes than I'll ever know.

I have 930 brakes on my car. They're great, but the rotors I needed to use in front (78-79 only) are expensive. Bill might know how to get as-good braking for less.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

I've outlined brake options here

the only addition since then is the recenly available Wilwood 307x32 rotors for use on the front w/ 993 calipers.

the heart of any brake system is the rotors, size them right and keep them as cool as possible and you will be happy.

ozz · ozz's Garage

Craig - you have a great project going.

I've not seen the rear sway bar mounts that Jack mentions but, if not those, at least pick up the weld-in reinforcement pieces for the rear sway-bar mounts. The factory mounts aren't all that stout. And I would second the recommendation to use the Elephant Racing suspension bushings - well built and very functional pieces. You might consider battery relocation and swap for the smaller Genesis or Hawker style battery. While you are there, a master cut-off switch for the battery would be nice.

When you mount your Corbeau seats, if you are not using sliders, be sure to position your seat properly - obviously you need to be able to fully engage the pedals but with your shoulders pressed back into the seat (like they will be with harnesses pulled down tight) put your arms out and your wrists ought to bend just over the top of the steering wheel. I'd use 8mm bolts for seat mounting instead of the factory 6mm as well. If that isn't enough, most bolt-in cages I've seen come with 8.8 bolts - get yourself 10.9 or 12.9s if you can find them.

Keep a notebook with tech articles, and product manuals/literature that you'll get with the pieces and parts you acquire. And, if you really want to scare yourself, keep a section for your receipts so you can look back when you are done. Be advised, you'll never be "done".

GaryR · GaryR's Garage

Let's see some in progress PICTURES!!!

DW SD · 10-13-2005, 07:23 AM

I built a car similar to Jack's and maybe your eventual one though it has less power and less braking capabilities, but also less weight and creature comforts. The brakes and engine / trans come from an '86 Carrera. Send me an email and I'll send you a modification list which is pretty comprehensive. It will give you an idea of some things which you may not have considered.

dougwierenga@cox.net

I tried to upload a picture, but that feature isn't working. My car has steel flares, many FG parts on a '71 tub.

To reiterate: let's see some photos of your car! Before and after sequences are really great! Finally, congratulations! The fun is just starting!

Doug

Vonzipper · 10-13-2005, 08:27 AM

Jack and Bill,

Will Big Reds fit under a Lindsey 17" wheel?? and does anyone reinforce the rear spring plate mount with coil overs?

I have a similar project going, Cage is in and I need to finish the steel flares, then off to paint.

I'll post picture's once I get moving a little further

DW SD · 10-13-2005, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vonzipper
Jack and Bill,

Will Big Reds fit under a Lindsey 17" wheel?? and does anyone reinforce the rear spring plate mount with coil overs?

I have a similar project going, Cage is in and I need to finish the steel flares, then off to paint.

I'll post picture's once I get moving a little further

VZ,
I think you will need to run a 1/4" spacer between the wheels with the larger brakes. Lindsey's are made from 16" fuchs centers, of which the inside of will not clear larger brakes. I don't know this first hand, but have heard this a number of times. Plan accordingly with your offsets when you order. You can space out but not back in.

I didn't have the luxury of trying someone else's wheels, but that is advised if at all possible.
Jack or Bill may shed some more light.

Doug

fastbacker · 10-13-2005, 03:00 PM

Is there a all inclusive kit I can buy to upgade the SC's brake for track duty use? I'll probably end up ordering some custom Fiske or Kinesis rims.

Thanks-
Craig Backer

p.s. I'll take some photos of the car next week and post them.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Is there a all inclusive kit I can buy to upgade the SC's brake for track duty use? I'll probably end up ordering some custom Fiske or Kinesis rims.

Pelican sells the Race Technology/Brembo Big Red and GTP kits 322/322 mm rotor, don't bother w/ anything bigger.

304/309 mm rotor 930 sets can be had from a # of places including Steve W. @ Rennsport

either will be all the brake you need.

because of the 930 flares you can even use the relatively cheap late 930 front rotors.

Quote:

Will Big Reds fit under a Lindsey 17" wheel??

not w/o a large spacer which you may need anyway w/ 930 fenders(don't know if that is your plan), the core is the flat back 6" Fuchs which leaves little room for calipers

This may give you some idea of whats going on

The radial space is adequate w/ 17s bit you need a fair amount axil room for the bigger calipers

dtw · 10-13-2005, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Olsen
Craig, I'm going to move this thread to the 911 Tech board, where hopefully it will catch the eye of Bill Verburg, who's forgotten more about Porsche brakes than I'll ever know.

I have 930 brakes on my car. They're great, but the rotors I needed to use in front (78-79 only) are expensive. Bill might know how to get as-good braking for less.

Craig, I'd recommend you consider giving Tyson Schmidt a call (TRE Motorsports). He's a suspension and overall car-dialing-in genius. In fact he set up Jack's car and came up with some truly unique ideas for it. His handiwork on Jack's car was featured in Excellence magazine.

Isn't that right, Jack?

Jack Olsen · 10-13-2005, 04:02 PM

He did more than set my car up. He built it.

Jeff Alton · 10-13-2005, 05:49 PM

There is no perfect brake solution, some are better than others. I use the GTP kit and am very happy with it, but I also run a dual non boosted MC with it for a solid pedal and bias adjustment. However, this setup bot only does a great job of slowing the car, it also does a great job of emptying the wallet. There is similar performance stuff available for less dollars. However, it is all nice and easy to bolt on.

Coilovers is a big debate, you do not really need them unless you need BIG spring rates, that said I am very happy with my coil over set up, once again it does a great job of emptying the wallet....

Cheers,

fastbacker · 10-26-2005, 05:09 PM

Only progress so far is rear turbo flares ordered and 915 Wevo rebuild in progress. Here's some photos of the way I got the car.