value estimation 72 911T

[Christien]

Curious as to what folks would think my car would sell for.

In brief:
1972 911T, pretty much all stock. 2.4L with Zenith carbs, 130,000kms. Originally sold in Germany, brought to Canada around 1983, 6 owners in Canada (including the original importing dealership). No records from before I owned it, history pieced together through my own research, phone calls, etc.

The good:
Low mileage - I can't prove beyond doubt that it's not 230,000km, (5 digit odometer) but judging by the condition of the engine, transmission, etc it would seem to be 130K.
Rear steel flares added, don't know when, where, by whom, but appears to be a very good job.
Original Recaro sport driver's seat
Runs very well, pulls strong through all the gears.
Transmission is fine, considering it's a 915
Has been perfectly reliable to me since I've owned it (just over a year)
Clean title, no accidents.

The bad:
Driver's seat left part needs refinishing (big chunk missing out of it)
Front fenders replaced with fibreglass by a previous owner (don't know who, when, why or where) - no gas filler in the fender, filler is accessed under the front hood.
Paint is only a 7/10, lots of overspray under the front hood.
No Carrera tensioner upgrade
A few bondo patches in front hood and doors, likely due to rust rather than damage.
A couple minor cosmetic flaws, most due to age.
A couple little things (see below)

Upgrades/maintenance I've done:
7 & 8/15 fuchs with Pirelli P6000s added last spring (had ugly black BBS's on it when I bought it)
MA Shaw ducktail put on this year
New fuel pump/filter done at local racing shop last year
New plugs earlier this season (old ones were still pretty clean)
Replaced throttle bushings, shifter bushings
New master cylinder this year (new pads too)
Replaced tranny fluid (using swepco)
Oil changes every 3-4000 kms
Replaced floor mats (bought good condition used)
New OEM brake light switch

Little things that need doing, will do before selling but haven't got around to yet:
Ignition switch is somehow screwed - electrical connection isn't made in furthest-right key position, so starter doesn't crank. Currently I've wired up a push-button to turn the starter, so you turn the key to the far right, then push the button to start the car. Ignition switch needs to be fixed or replaced.
4-way flashers aren't working, haven't yet diagnosed, but it's not a fuse. Maybe a relay? Turn signals work fine.
Parking brake needs adjusting
Driver's chair bolts are loose (one missing), only temporarily fixed, needs to be properly fixed
Install tensioner slip collars (already purchased)
New points, (already purchased)

I've done 2 DEs and one auto-x with the car.

I think that about covers it. I absolutely love this car, and would only sell it to fund the purchase of a newer 911. Even then, I'm not convinced I'd rather have a newer one, which is why I'm putting out a feeler before making a decision. If I had more cash and garage space I'd just buy a second one!

A couple pics are here:
A little "Porsche porn" to start your morning!

Any thoughts, opinions, comments good or bad, are welcome.

Thanks!
Chris

[Christien]

bump - nobody?

[JeremyD]

10-12k US? Get the ignition switch fixed before you put it on the market = nobody likes a jury rigged car.

Of course, that said - with fancy pictures and a red car - you could stick on ebay and get double that if two bidders fell in love with your car. realistically - with fiberglass front fenders and no carrera tensioners - I would think 10-12k would be a good, fair price.

[Jim Richards]

Carrera tensioners aren't a big deal, as long as the car has the newer 930-style tensioners and collars. In my book, that's the more reliable setup since there's no little oil lines to fail.

Jeremy's in the right ballpark, moneywise, and his comment about jury rigs is spot on. Are you willing to attend to the little things you noted? With some work you could really up its value.

Were Zenith carbs stock on euro 72T's, or was the proper fitment Webers? I forget.

[JeremyD]

Originally posted by Jim Richards
Carrera tensioners aren't a big deal, as long as the car has the newer 930-style tensioners and collars. In my book, that's the more reliable setup since there's no little oil lines to fail.

Jeremy's in the right ballpark, moneywise, and his comment about jury rigs is spot on. Are you willing to attend to the little things you noted? With some work you could really up its value.

Were Zenith carbs stock on euro 72T's, or was the proper fitment Webers? I forget.

You are knowledgable Jim - most of the rest of the population will read crap on the internet and tell you I don't want it unless it has a "carrera tensioners" even when they have no idea what that means.

When I briefly lost my mind and stuck my car on the market I had someone interested that asked if I had a pop off valve installed in my airbox. I said no, It was motronic not CIS and you don't need a pop off valve. He then told me that he wouldn't consider my car cause I obviously didn't know what I was talking about...

[Christien]

Yep, all those things in my list of "little things" will all get fixed before it goes up for sale if it does. They'll all get fixed even if I don't sell it, especially the damn ignition thing. That's the most frustrating. The bloody thing went on me literally the day before an auto-x. I had to have my wife and a friend bump-start the car to get it home. Needless to say it was a long night of figuring out the ignition wiring. The other thing that I forgot to add to the list is a valve adjustment and timing adjustment. There are no symptoms leading to require these to be done, but I don't know when the last valve adjustment was, and judging by the look of the bolts on the covers it's been a while. The timing will be redone when I replace the plugs.

IIRC, according to Peter Morgan ROW 72 Ts shipped with Zenith Carbs, US cars shipped with MFI, and I think the ROW E's and S's had either Webers or MFI, but yes, the Zenith carbs are stock on my car.

Thanks, guys - any more ideas or comments, keep 'em coming!

Chris

[donstevens]

I agree with the two previuos posters. My initial thought was $10K US based on the items that you mention that are not quite right and/or not original. It is a very nice looking car and I agree with Jeremy in that you just might find someone who falls in love with it and bumps that $10K up a couple of grand on emotion alone.

Good Luck,

Don

[coldstart]

Chris, I really like your car-- it convinced me to buy my own!

I think you would not have a problem selling your car for $12-16K Canadian but getting more than that would require big money invested in the car. You have really improved the car with the better wheels and all the little items but I would not invest more than regular maintenance and minor repairs (stock starter, seat) if you are going to sell and get your bigger displacement SC/Carrera.

Personally, I think you should upgrade now if you are planning on making the switch.....

[techweenie]

I think if the car were here on the US left coast, $14K would be possible. It's likely the starter switch problem is in the 'electrical component' of the ignition switch. This a pretty cheap part -- around $50 -- and a DIY replacement.

The big questions would center around rust. It's possible the front fenders were replaced for that reason, and bondo patches sometimes conceal ineffective repair.

Just wondering, from the other thread, what is the true color of the car? The unenhanced photo looks like a brick red.

[Christien]

Good question, and thanks for bringing up the rust issue. I did forget to mention that there a bit of rust in the front, in front of the spare tire - pretty common area for rust, as I understand it. I would actually say it's likely the fenders were replaced due to rust.

The original colour of the car was 018, blood orange/tangerine. I spoke to the guy who imported it into Canada, who thought he remembered it, but thought it was white. The guy I bought it from only owned it for about 6 months, and in that time repainted it the colour it is now, and put a turbo tail on it. Needless to say the turbo tail saw ebay pretty quickly, and I put the duck on it. My guess as far as paint goes is that he wanted it guards red, so painted over the tangerine with red, and the result was somewhere in between. I don't really know how to tell a good vs. bad paint job, but it clearly wasn't the best. There's definitely overspray in lots of places. I had to scrape an invisible layer off a couple windows with a razor blade. You couldn't see it, but you could feel it, and you could see the red dust collect as I scraped. There are a couple rock chips in the hood - if it were sprayed red over orange, shouldn't I be able to see a bit of orange in the chips? (I can't)

[techweenie]

The rust issue brings itself up!

;-)

The front pan is item #1. battery acid takes out the area beow the battery and might also take out the 'trough' stamping between the front suspension mounts. At some point, patching is impossible and you have to do a full front pan and gas tank support replacement. $$$

An increasingly common problem for the past 10 years or so is bad rear window seals leading to water accumulating on the firewall panel/back shelf. If you can put your fingers under the engine pad and push upward on all the sheetmetal you can reach around the rear lid hinges, you might find you can push through in spots. It's not uncommon for these cars to be missing a square foot of sheetmetal there. You can sometimes see similar corrosion on the cowl at the front windshield corners, and, of course around the jack supports...

It's always hard to tell what multiple P.O.s did, but it's possible that all the original paint was removed in some prior repaint. More likely, the hood was replaced with the fenders due to accident. The accident could be relatively minor, but hoods can be a challenge to straighten and it's often cheaper just to replace them. Places to look for evidence of prior paint is under the front & rear lids.

Personally, I don't get too disturbed by overspray. The problem is what it implies: a quickie paint job. 911s should be painted with the glass out. It's pretty typical for cars with big overspray problems to also have sanding marks on the aluminum trim. All that stuff substantially deducts from overall value.

[Christien]

Thanks for some great points. The front rust is not likely due to battery leakage. The car was converted to a single battery at some point, and both battery boxes are completely rust free. The rust in the front is right along the bottom, at the very front, on the passenger side.

The car was appraised (for insurance) a while back, and he did a thorough search for rust - the only rust he found was in the front. None along the firewall (he showed me where to look for it). The appraisal states no evidence of accident damage. The undersides of both lids are painted the same as the outside. There's no sanding marks on any of the trim, except for a small scuff where, ironically enough, I hit the car when I tripped in the garage carrying sandpaper. Man, was I pi$$ed at myself that day.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by Christien
There's no sanding marks on any of the trim, except for a small scuff where, ironically enough, I hit the car when I tripped in the garage carrying sandpaper. Man, was I pi$$ed at myself that day.

Man, we've all been there...

So it sounds like the car is worth closer to $14K, maybe a bit more, in California valuation. Trouble is, you're about a $2K transport charge away (along with unknown importation duties).

Ideally, you'd find a buyer in the US midwest or northwest.

[Christien]

Well, to be quite honest, I'd be much better off selling it here in Canada. Prices are a good 10-20% higher across the board, even irrespective of the exchange rate. A car that's worth $10K CDN in, say, California would be worth at least $12K CDN here.

I bought this car here because I thought importing a car would be far more hassle and cost than it's worth. I've since learned that's not quite true, so if I were to look for another car I'd look in the US.