CIS (82 SC) Cold Start

twopoorsche · 11-07-2005, 04:55 AM

82 SC will not start. At all. Does not fire at all. I am getting a spark; I do not smell any gasoline (there is gas in the tank). Ran perfectly, put it away for a week, and now the car is not even interested in starting.

WUR has about 200 miles on it.

hbkramer · 11-07-2005, 05:26 AM

Spark is good, now you need fuel....have you checked your red fuel pump relay? fuel pump(should be whirring with the ignition on , how old is the accumulator and fuel filter? is fuel getting to the injectors?
do a search and find volumes on these topics.

Hladun · 11-07-2005, 07:02 AM

1. You won't hear the fuel pump, it only runs when the engine is turning over (cranking or running).
2. With your comment about the new WUR I suspect you're not telling us the whole story.

Gunter · Gunter's Garage

With ignition on, remove the air filter cover, reach in there and gently lift the air sensor plate lever; do you hear the pump running? injectors hissing? (Bentley 201-7)

acapella8 · acapella8's Garage

I'm getting 2 stories here:

1. fuel pump will run when ignition turned on
2. fuel pump will not run unless engine is turning over (starting or cranking)

From a noob, which is accurate?

Hladun · 11-07-2005, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by acapella8
I'm getting 2 stories here:

1. fuel pump will run when ignition turned on
2. fuel pump will not run unless engine is turning over (starting or cranking)

From a noob, which is accurate?

You can make it do 1, but it's 2.

Gunter · Gunter's Garage

Normally, the pump will run only when cranking the engine on start. However, you can mimic running conditions by turning the ignition on, then lifting the air flow sensor lever to get the pump running. Why don't you try that? You should hear the injectors hissing.
On the other hand, if the pump runs when you turn ignition on, (without cranking) it means that the sensor plate contact switch is misadjusted. (That switch is also called "Roll-over switch" meaning it'll shut off the pump in case the 911 is flipped over)
I suggest you get the Bentley repair manual; wonderful stuff in there to make you understand your car better.

ianc · 11-07-2005, 10:52 AM

If the fuel pump is working, it is probably the cold start valve. Check electrical connections on back of the valve (on rear of throttle body), the solenoid, and at the thermotime switch in driver side chain cover.

A fuel pressure test is always a good thing to start with here...

ianc

twopoorsche · 11-07-2005, 12:17 PM

Thanks for the tips. I've always been able to hear a whirring sound on CIS cars when the ignition was on; I thought that was the fuel pump. I'll pull the airbox cover off and lift the lever and see what happens.

I do not believe that it is a fuel pump relay (I swapped it with one of the black ones, but maybe that would not work), and my experience with cold start valves is that CIS engines will at least try to start on a warm day (80 degrees plus here) even with a bad cold start valve. This car has NO indication of wanting to crank.

99% that I am not getting fuel, but I am still not sure why.

I'd swap the red relay from my '88, but it is in the shop!

vash · vash's Garage

stick any black relay in for a temp check.

ruf-porsche · ruf-porsche's Garage

Wrong Relay from an 88.

88 use EFI and 82 use CIS

cantdrv55 · 11-07-2005, 01:35 PM

If you're not getting fuel, it could be a bad fuel pump check valve (it's in-line with the fuel pump), the pump itself or fuel filter. I had the same problem with my 79SC. I replaced all three.

twopoorsche · 11-07-2005, 03:51 PM

OK, I pushed the lever up, and I get a noticable buzzing, presumably the fuel pump.

I'm not sure what that tells me. I let it run for awhile, and still no indication of wanting to start.

Check valve?

twopoorsche · 11-07-2005, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ruf-porsche
Wrong Relay from an 88.

88 use EFI and 82 use CIS

I believe that the relay is the same, however. EFI and CIS both use an electric fuel pump!

cantdrv55 · 11-07-2005, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by twopoorsche
OK, I pushed the lever up, and I get a noticable buzzing, presumably the fuel pump.

I'm not sure what that tells me. I let it run for awhile, and still no indication of wanting to start.

Check valve?

I'd have someone push up the lever while I sat near the fuel pump to make sure that the buzzing is coming from there. I never could hear my pump over the whine of the CDI box when I stood in the back of the car. If you can definitely hear the pump and there is still no fuel, I'd replace the check valve and fuel filter. Two years ago when my fuel pump died, I ordered a new one and the check valve came with it.

ruf-porsche · ruf-porsche's Garage

Try using starting fluid to start the engine.

twopoorsche · 11-07-2005, 04:46 PM

I tried a little bit of starting fluid by putting it in at the toilet seat. However, I am afraid to use too much, and have an airbox explosion.

I did about a 1 sec spray. Tried 3 times. No luck.

twopoorsche · 11-07-2005, 05:13 PM

Fuel pump is running.

I've been told that the check valve is only an issue when the car is hot, and I remember replacing one about 20 years ago in a 2.7 car, and the problem was hot starting.

I'm baffled.

ianc · 11-07-2005, 05:23 PM

Quote:

I'm baffled.

Do you actually have gas out the injectors? Pull one and see while you have jumped the safety switch or are holding the sensor plate up. If no gas, look at filter or a blockage in the line. If gas, then look at cold start valve and do a fuel pressure test.

ianc

ruf-porsche · ruf-porsche's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by twopoorsche
I tried a little bit of starting fluid by putting it in at the toilet seat. However, I am afraid to use too much, and have an airbox explosion.

I did about a 1 sec spray. Tried 3 times. No luck.

Have someone spray the starting fluid into the airbox intake snout while you crank the engine.

The last time when you spray the starting fluid into the toilet seat was it up or down?

Did the engine try to start or did it just crank?