Newbie question about 911/912

bobcat0 · 02:56 PM

Hi folks...just sold my "entry level" Porsche (a '83 944) and am researching my next toy. I'm confused about some things I saw/read about the 911/912s and maybe you can help me out.

1) What size engine is in the 912? I've seen pictures of the engine compartment and I swear it looks like the same engine as my wife's '71 Karmann Ghia. What's the difference? I would hope that if the engine were the same size (the Ghia is a 1776 cc) that the difference would be in handling. Is it basically a Karmann Ghia with superb handling? (yeah, I know that it's more than one question, but I'm on a roll...)

2) What would be an "average" price to pay for a 912 in "daily driver" condition?

3) I've seen prices all over the map for 911's. Just when I thought they were too pricey for me, I saw a beautiful '83 911 SC for $8500. Any logic behind the value of the different model years?

Any advice you could give would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Dan in Pasadena · Dan in Pasadena's Garage

WEll, I am sure there are much more knowledgeable guys on the board about these subjects than I, but the 912's ended with 2.0 liters. I'm sure you know they are four cylinder engines, correct?

Couldn't tell you what the "average" price for a 912 daily is but I can comment that the popular wisdom is that decent SC's can be had for less than $10,000. My experience here in SoCal is that SC's that I would want to own cost more than $10K. My friend just bought an '83 SC in really perfect daily driver condition with new Autos Int'l complete reupholstery and fully updated and actually cold AC not to mention restored Fuchs (6&7's), recent respray, full receipts/records and he paid $14,000. I think you could get a pretty nice SC in the $10-12K price, though the mileage might be a little higher.

Regardless of what you decide on, follow the tried and true wisdom of getting a PPI done be the owner's non-regualr shop. Try to get a car with complete records and be mindful of the trite but true "all Porsche's are $20,000 cars" maxim. They are....sooner or later.... if you're lucky? it'll be later. Good luck!

Todd Simpson · 11-29-2005, 03:55 PM

The '65-'69 912's are 1600 cc, the '76 912E's are 2 liter.

The '65-'69's use the final development of the 356 engine and produce 90HP. While they appear similar to VW engines of the same era, few if any parts interchange.

The '76 912E used the 914 or VW bus "type 4" engine. Same concept as the earlier VW and Porsche engines, but again different in execution. Dunno the HP, but not much more than the earlier 912's. E indicates these engines are fuel injected.

bobcat0 · 11-29-2005, 03:56 PM

Hey Dan...thx...figured that the 912's were 4 cylinders as were the original VWs...just was confused about output....thx...Marty

bobcat0 · 11-29-2005, 03:59 PM

Hey Tod...so the advantage to the 912's is their handling ability? The Ghia doesn't handle worth a damn...thx...

HarryD · 11-29-2005, 05:29 PM

When I was buying my 911 in 2001 I discovered the cost difference between a decent 912 and 911 is not all that much and the extra two cylinders definaltely increase the fun factor for me. Add to this the fact that most 912's require parts that are related to the SWB 911 and becoming increasingly scarce, this makes the repair cost of a 912 the same or more than a similar 911.

stevepaa · 11-29-2005, 06:51 PM

If you decide on a 912, get a 69 with a sunroof. It is the longer wheelbase version with slighted flared rear fenders and much better interior and the best engine of its type. They are very easy cars to maintain and the tranny has long legs. A 69 912 was my first Porsche. However, I put way too much money into it over the years. I would not even consider a 912E. Go with a 911. Check the cars for sale listings here at Pelican. Ask for other's comments on it. Get the inspections done before you commit.

Dan in Pasadena · Dan in Pasadena's Garage

Harry...true...all true. Does anyone here remember the article in European Car a couple of years ago (I have it in hard copy, maybe I could scan it and load it) that was titled "Nein-11"? It was a cover article if I remember correctly and had some beautiful 912's in it.

Before I bought my low mileage '87 944 in April '02 I had a chance to buy a completely original '66 912 in Light Yellow. It had already had its front pan replaced, was mechanically solid and was all there just tired cosmetically. The guy's asking price was $6600 then, the 944 I bought for $5500 because I felt I could make it into a better near term daily driver. I spent like $5000 more on the 944 over the next 4 years. If I'd bought the '12 and spent the same on it I'd have liked it SO much more. Not that the 944 is a bad car, it just isn't anything like a 911/912 body.

I'd buy a well sorted, but cosmetically challenged SC if I were advising you.

ed martin · 07:16 PM

I presently own a '68 912 and I owned at one time a '73 Karmann Ghia. What can I say about the Karmann Ghia, other than the difficulty of just trying to spell the name correctly? It is an extremely listless, boring car to drive. It might in some ways have a resemblence to a Porsche, made in Germany with a rear mounted aircooled engine, but I my opinion there really is no further comparison. The Karmann Ghia's suspension lacks any of the quick responsiveness or turning agility of its' cousin as well.

As far as comparing the 912 to a 911 you have to keep in mind that Porsche never really made any radical departures from the original design like most auto manufacturers, but over the years gradually evolved the design. The 911 as everyone knows had an addition of two cylinders and also as a marketing ploy, trying to encourage the sales of the six cylinder cars, Porsche downgraded a lot of the features in the 912s while adding a lot of extras to the 911s. As a consequence the 912 is a far more simpler car, more Spartan than the relatively delux additions to the 911s. In a nutshell the 912 is a fun car, but overall the 911 is more fun and more substantial and priced in the market accordingly.

Evans, Marv · 11-29-2005, 08:47 PM

I owned a '67 912 for 10 years. I really loved driving it, and it performed well within its envelope. I also owned a '72 911E for 8 of those years. My 911 was a completely different car. Whereas I felt like driving leisurely in the 912 and just enjoying the drive, when I got into the 911 I always felt like driving more aggressively. The 912 was simple, not very powerful, and handled pretty well if you wanted to take it through some curves. I wouldn't mind owning another one, but I'd NEVER consider a '76 912!