ROW vs US?

klw0472 · 12-04-2005, 11:35 AM

Hi everyone,

I'm a self proclaimed Newbie looking for my first Porsche 911. Would someone out there please help me with the ROW and US model issue. Should I be scared of ROW models for some reason? PS: No emissions (yet) in Ohio. Anything offered would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advvnce for your assistance.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

As long as the DOT and EPA releases come w/ the car, there should be no issue.

IROC · IROC's Garage

In a large way - it depends. My '76 RoW model is essentially the same as a US model. I wouldn't be unnecessarily wary of RoW models, but I would ensure that it meets whatever requirements you happened to have in Ohio.

My car had basically no changes from the European (German) location it came from. The only differences were the headlights and tail light lenses. My car was brought into Alabama, though.

Mike

ZLP · ZLP's Garage

ROW ownz all!!

j/k If it has been registered at all in the states and has the importation sticker then you are fine. I think some people on here put them down to make thier own US spec cars seem more valuable.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Not to beat a dead horse, but let me repeat

the car was given a DOT and EPA release when it was imported. I have never had to produce these docs but was told that they should be kept in perpetuity w/ the car.

You never know when you may be asked to produce them.

petrolblue83911 · 12-04-2005, 01:45 PM

I agree, no need to disregard ROW cars, but realize, that when the time comes to sell, the "perception" of ROW cars may make it harder to sell, and harder to hold value -if you restore/update it.

-Good luck!

klaucke · 12-04-2005, 02:33 PM

ROW's often have simpler exhaust, higher compression, and therefore more power. Also, ROW ridehight (if it's still stock) can be lower than US. ROW's often lack sunroofs when compared to their US conterparts, which many people consider an advantage. ROW Carrera's (that's a 911 from 1984-1989) had a stock transmision cooler, as well.

Personally, I think that a proper ROW car can be an advantage over a US car.

Ron.G · 12-04-2005, 02:36 PM

unless it's a non sunroof coupe. Then it may be worth more to the right buyer. At least it was for me.

Wil Ferch · 12-04-2005, 02:49 PM

klaucke:

The ROW car ( at least the 84-89 DME series) has a transmission oil cooler "only" if it was the standard configuration ( without cat and without an O2 sensor)).

ROW cars can opt for a cat ( with sensor) which gave the Euro owner a tax break...but then the car looked a bit more like a USA car in that it didn't come with a trans oil cooler....

Wil

klw0472 · 12-04-2005, 06:17 PM

Wow,
You guys rule. Thanks for all the info. If I read all this right, it really is up to the buyer. With proper papers, the right car, the right history, and a PPI, I should be ok as there isn't too much different.

One last question. Is gray market the same as ROW?

Thanks

I don't have a car yet but have been following this site for about 2 months. Thanks for EVERYTHING!!!

SandyI · 12-04-2005, 06:32 PM

You might consider purchasing ORIGINAL PORSCHE 911 by Peter Morgan. It's a terrific book that details the differences between the US and ROW models.

(Since it's almost X-mas, why not ask Santa for it?)

klw0472 · 12-04-2005, 07:10 PM

Thanks Sandy,
Santa needs to go to Borders soon. The funny thing is I've learned just enough to be extremely dangerous with the wallet!!! The hard part is finding the right car with an honest owners to deal with another honest guy like myself. With the help of people like yourself, I'll do ok.
Thanks again

RickM · RickM's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by klw0472

One last question. Is gray market the same as ROW?

T

Yes. Although the 911 was made for the US market many Rst of World cars were brought in at lower cost, converted and sold here in the US. This was a popular option in the '80s.

Question:

Did the 911 require structural reinforcements to the doors in order to comply with US law? Also did the lighting need to be changed to US standards?

If so these would be areas to investigate wehn doing a PPI.

I have seen EURO only cars (Unlike the 911, never made for the US market) that were hack jobs in order to "comply".

jthwan22 · 12-04-2005, 08:09 PM

84-89 ROW car have smaller bumper pads, euro head lights and side blinkers. I think they look better.

Wil Ferch · 12-05-2005, 09:09 AM

One thing here is being avoided.....

Certainly there is nothing wrong with a ROW that is "individually" certified for DOT and EPA. Yes, get the release papers.

However, Bruce Anderson mentions in his performance book that if the gov't goes after the shop who did the conversion...and finds out that the work was improper and/or faked..... they have the right to confiscate and destroy your car... and you're left holding the bag. I don't think the gov't is required to reimburse you for the loss either.

confirm? / deny ?

Wil

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

Check with your insurance company too - some will not insure a "ROW" car.

Ron.G · 12-05-2005, 09:55 AM

I've had insurance with a couple of companies and never had any issues.

creaturecat · 12-05-2005, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wil Ferch
One thing here is being avoided.....

Certainly there is nothing wrong with a ROW that is "individually" certified for DOT and EPA. Yes, get the release papers.

However, Bruce Anderson mentions in his performance book that if the gov't goes after the shop who did the conversion...and finds out that the work was improper and/or faked..... they have the right to confiscate and destroy your car... and you're left holding the bag. I don't think the gov't is required to reimburse you for the loss either.

confirm? / deny ?

Wil

How many people out there have had their ROW confiscated and destroyed by the gov't?

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Question:
Did the 911 require structural reinforcements to the doors in order to comply with US law? Also did the lighting need to be changed to US standards?

Yes and yes, the chrome-moly steel bars that I put in mine are far stronger than the US versions.

On mine I swapped the euro lights out for the day that the EPA inspectors looked at it, they went back in the next day.

TerryH · TerryH's Garage

Buy the best example for the dollar you can find. I haven't seen any of the drawbacks mentioned here in real life pertaining to ROW cars. Most of the ROW cars would have been imported decades ago. If they have issues, they would be very obvious by now.

Get a PPI and enjoy the drive.