WTF is wrong with MODS?

[masraum]

I had my '88 up for sale on several different sites (not ebay) and in the paper and auto trader for about 3 months. I got some calls and a couple of people that looked at the car. I continued to get calls for 3 months after selling it despite removing all listings. Mine wasn't as nice as yours. I ended up dropping the price to speed up the sell and sold it to a dealer.

I think that you can get 21K for it, but I think you'll have to wait. It may take 6 months or more.

[ken_xman]

Originally posted by SoCal911SC


If that were my car and I needed to sell, and didn't have the orginal parts, I'd advertise it at $19,900, be willing to go down to $19,500, and move the car. But I hate selling used cars, paying for ads, dealing with flakes, etc. and would rather sell quickly and lose the last $1000-$1500 than spend 6 months trying to squeeze it out.

I agree in philosophy, but no one has offered even that.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by ken_xman

I am beginning to consider pulling it apart and going back to a stock look, jacking the price to $22-23k, and I'd bet it would sell.

And if it doesn't? Patience is king. You say you *need* to sell it. When I need to sell something, or don't want to dick around with tire kickers, I price it at wholesale and walk away.

Many cars take 2-3 mos., even longer to attract the right buyer. Flippers know this and are prepared to hold while marketing the item. You need to decide which situation you are in.

As far as actual examples go, I sold my 914 non streetable race car, engine seized, for .30 on the dollar. It was gone in hours to a flipper. He made it barely street legal, installed a six (good move), yet it took him a year to sell it. Two listings on eBay as the final act did the job. Not counting a lot of labor, he made out. But, I'll wager he's done better deals.

My conclusion is that the more mods, the more difficult the sell and that all extras (mods) get thrown in for free. Lastly, I'll give you the example of my present car: '71 911S; tired, but on it's way back; no longer has its sport seats and is far from the original color. Nothing that has been done is irreversible, it will all unbolt. Not painted yet, but ready. Your guess? I had it informally *appraised* at maybe 12-15K. This, while very nice original '71 S's go for 20's and 30's. Pristine time warps can reach the 50's.

Early cars don't directly compare with yours, but you get my point, I hope.

[Monza_dh]

Ken,

I am a Northeast buyer and have viewed this car here on line and followed it on ebay as well. I really like the car and the mods however there are a few things that keep me from driving to NY to see it. None have anything to do with the mods except that it again impacts your selling price to recoup some of the cost.

I'm sure I am like others in the market that are looking for a specific model, and anything out of the scope will have to be less money.

I am looking at 3.2 coupes in the $14-$18K range and also 964’s around $20K. I can take either one; it just has to be the right combination of price, options, color, distance and check out mechanically.

I have the dollar range to be picky and If the right slightly modded and upgraded 964 came along for $22 I could jump as I would on a perfect '86 coupe with a fresh top end and rebuilt 915 for $15K.

For me it comes down to:

-Model: I'm looking for a coupe. I could pick up a targa only if priced right.

-Color: I just can't do red. If this was any other color, I would consider it even as a targa. Again, it would have to be a deal for a red Targa for me to jump.

-Price: too high for Targa. For $20K+ I would pick up a 964. I or a G-50 M491 option coupe, etc.

So if this was silver and priced at $17-18K, I would be all over it, even as a Targa. I think a coupe would fetch you your money in a week I believe.

Just my 2 cents.

[FrayAdjacent911]

One rule of thumb regarding cars is that mods do not increase the value of the car. Taking a stock car and dumping $10k worth of mods into it isn't going to increase the value.

This MUST be considered if you are ever going to have to sell the car.

[Bob's Flat-Six]

Originally posted by ken_xman
When I bought my car it was completety stock... low miles

Theres your answer.

[KFC911]

Please don't take this wrong, but you've got to wait for the 'right buyer' to come along. As others have mentioned, you've severely limited your potential pool of buyers. It's a very personal thing when making a purchase (yours would have been excluded from my list right off the bat due to many reasons: red, targa, wheels, unknowns, etc.). I'm not at all knocking your car, as it is VERY nice...IF that's what you're looking for...be patient.

[BoxsterGT]

Very nice Targa.

But....there are more people with money in hand who are less afraid of a bone stock P car than any one that is modded.

Just a fact of life.

Be patient, someone will come along that wants exactly what you have to sell.

Did I mention thats a very nice Targa.

Len

[9dreizig]

Nice car,, clearly you're selling a targa ( i.e. convertible) in the dead of winter.. This is not rocket science, you'll have them lined up come April..
Nice car!!!

[Puka Puncha]

Originally posted by JBO
Also remember that buyers that need financing may be knocked out as most lenders don't want to loan on 15-20 year old cars.

I was on this boat when I was shopping for a Porsche. Found a cherry '88 ...Banks said no way and lost the deal by an hour....I had to rob my personal piggy bank to get my '85

[greg bradbury]

Originally posted by jluetjen
Successful selling is all about identifying a need/desire/want on the part of the buyer(s) and providing that n/d/w cheaper then the best alternatives. It's all about the buyer.

Modifying a 911 is all about self gratification and making it just the way that you want it, so that it will be your dream car.

The two do not have much -- if any -- overlap. If you want to make money (or even just lose less money) modding and selling Porsches, you need to remove your own wants/needs/desires from the specifications of the car and replace them with the w/n/d's of the person whose money you want.

Unfortunately buyer behaviour for 911's is no different then for any other thing. Most of us are here because we are trying to satisfy our own w/n/d's with our 911's -- and try to ignore the inevitable results when we need to move on and sell our cars.

Well put, couldn't have said it better myself.

The car will sell if you meet the market or the market comes to you (ah time). Living in Australia I can't beleive how cheap the 911's are over stateside you lucky guy's and gal's

[Dixie]

There are a few key ”problems” with mods.

• They are limited in taste-appeal. What you like, someone else will hate.
• The buyer fears they may have been done using poor quality products, and materials.
• The buyer fears they may have been executed poorly.
• The buyer fears they may have been done to mask an issue, like major accident damage.

One rule of thumb regarding cars is that mods do not increase the value of the car....
This MUST be considered if you are ever going to have to sell the car

I'll be bolder. Moding a car usually REDUCES the value of the car. And no, I'm not saying you shouldn't mod your car. I'm just saying you need to realize it has an impact on the cars worth.

As usual there is a hand full of exceptions to this rule. But in these cases you will get much less than 50% of the money you spent.

1 )Adding model appropriate factory parts. For example adding a Carrera tail on a Carrera. (Adding a turbo or duck-tail on a Carrera does not count.)
2) Adding phenomenally-easy-to-remove aftermarket parts, and you still have the factory parts that are in good working condition. Examples would be wheels, and with a bit of a stretch, radios.

[Pele911]

Well said jluetjen !!

[Nine, Frau!]

So you need to sell your Ruf accessorized Targa to pay off legal woes, but you can somehow swing a Boxster? Sounds flaky to me....good luck with your pursuits....

NF

[911pcars]

Apparently there are many on this forum who own a Porsche mainly for its investment value. It might have been better for the car to depreciate like other cars, then they can modify it to their liking without worrying about satisfying the next owner or preserving the mystic.

How about fixing up your car in a manner that provides the most enjoyment for YOU, otherwise you end up compromising your ownership in it. If you're into originality, that's fine too, but let's not criticize others (too much) for wanting to improve THEIR driving enjoyment.

As to potential buyers, I understand the pitfalls of purchasing something with an abundance of DIY labor involved. How many of us have purchased or rented a house where the previous user/owner had performed a lot of DIY repairs themselves? Very often it's not pretty. If you worry more about the next buyer than getting maximum enjoyment from the car, keep it original or modify it so the return to originality is easily accomplished.

MHO,
Sherwood

[masraum]

Originally posted by SoCal911SC
I don't think anybody has criticized him for modifying the car. Nothing wrong with that at all. What's important is to enjoy the car.

Some are just pointing out that you have to be realistic as to the consequences of doing mods, esp. on low mileage older Porsches, when it comes time to sell the car. I.e., you generally don't get any of your mod money back, and in fact usually make the car worth less and/or harder to sell.

Exactly! I'm a big proponent of doing exactly what you want with your car regardless of what anyone else thinks. You just have to be aware that 9 times out of 10 that if you do anything but keep it original (other than stuff like Carrera tensioners, the valve in the SC airbox, etc....) you are reducing your resale unless you have the time and patience to wait for the right buyer who wants your mods and is willing to pay for them.

[tubwreck]

People buy Porsches, at least their first Porsche, because the car they see resonates with some vision of a 911 that they've carried with them, probably from childhood. For most people, that vision is a stock car. The stock car lets them imagine that they have been transported back in time to pick up the car they wanted. A modded car may have many practical and performance advantages over stock, but it just isn't what a lot of buyers have "in mind".

I sold this '87 coupe (50K miles, totally stock but with a partial repaint/accident repair) for $23000 through autotrader. The person who bought it was about 50 and he'd wanted a Porsche for 20 years.



I then bought this heavily modified '88 coupe with 40K miles (Fikses, Recaros, big red brakes, Wrightwood swaybars, big t-bars, strut bar, cat bypass) for $24K (owner asking $27K).



I sold all the go-fast bits for about $7K, and spent $2K to return the car to mostly stock shape, giving me what I wanted, which was a stock low-miles non-sunroof coupe for $19K.



I would suggest that ken_xman's best bet would be to return the car to stock, sell it for $19K or $20K, then sell off the pieces. The wheels, tires, and body pieces by themselves should bring in $4K to $5K, and selling a 50K mile G50 Targa in great shape for $20K should be a snap.

[mb911]

Yeah you are probably right > Ken if you decide to go that route put me in line for the fiskes I have some fuchs that can go back on there for you. I do feel for your situation it is a hard one. I personally know that my car is not worth allot to a first time buyer as it is a 77 body with a 79 tranny an a81 engine. with an efi conversion. It is rust free and has a great repaint with perfect interior. I would say It would probably only sell in the 10k range because it is not original but really it is probably worth high teens because it is such a nice well sorted car. P-cars of this vintage are a crap shoot hard to tell what you will get out of them. For example I had a beutiful 914-6 (conversion that I did) with all the oem 914-6 parts. Sold it for 12 and the current market for originals was 10 so I did well when I sold it. Anyhow Good luck and best wishes

[donstevens]

Originally posted by Ed Dennison
I would suggest that ken_xman's best bet would be to return the car to stock, sell it for $19K or $20K, then sell off the pieces. The wheels, tires, and body pieces by themselves should bring in $4K to $5K, and selling a 50K mile G50 Targa in great shape for $20K should be a snap.

I concur with this line of thinking. If it were me though I would have kept the mods on the white car. But that is simply my taste.

Like I said on the other thread, I like your car Ken. Plus, I personally think your mods are desirable. OTOH, I am not in the market for an 87 Targa so even if it were $15,000 I'd have to think long and hard about it. Sadly, even if you do return the car to stcock, you are simply going to have to wait for the right guy to sell it. If you need cash fast, you should probably remove the mods and be prepared to sell it cheap

Best of Luck Ken,

Don

[911pcars]

Ken,
Those who most appreciate your car are those who are already owners. Your car is very nice. However, there are fewer of us who are in the market for a second 911.

Those who are new to the marque don't really know the ins and outs of the car and don't realize how well the car can be improved. They play it safe and look only for the unmolested examples and use that as their starting point. I think that's how most Porsche owners start off.

So, if you can, remove all the nice stuff and sell it. Return the car back to stock and let the new buyer start with a relatively clean slate. The new owner may eventually want to do the same mods anyway. This will also keep the parts and accessory guys in business.

Sherwood