Supertec or rebuilder request

911pcars · 02-24-2006, 08:03 AM

Does anyone have a short or long block they'd like to offer for a test?

I've ranted, probably too often, about the negative effects of lifting the car using the engine as a lift point. I know, I know, many publications and web pages and many more owners say this as a safe and innocuous method to lift the back end.

I, OTOH, have always questioned this method. I think this places unnecessary stress on the engine (crankcase specifically). According to some third parties, some owners manuals suggest NOT to lift the car in this manner. I for one know the corporate suits go over this particular publication with a fine tooth comb since customers usually take those printed words as gospel.

However, there are many owners who think it's perfectly fine. They see their highly compensated tech do it - perhaps "spreading the load" a bit using a telephone book, block of wood or a hocky puck inbetween engine and jack. For many it's convenient. My favorite response is, "I haven't seen any changes because of this." My answer is, I applaud your keen sense of observation, but if you can see metal deflect .015", then sir, you are good. My stance may not make much difference in the universe of engine life expectancy. But I need validation. Like many of you, we're all infected with this marque. I just happen to be fixated on this for the moment. Bear with me.

So I pose this question to those who might be in an engine rebuilding mode. I address Henry at Supertec as one since he and his crew seem to be doing a fine job at rebuilding our engines and probably have a bunch they could offer up. I'd ask Dieter or whoever does this at Andial but I don't think they hang out here. Maybe someone could ring up MM.

So Henry, whom I've never met but kindly and generously provides us with good advice and photos of glistening rebuilds, can you take one (or several examples) of your customer's engines and place it on a hydraulic press or equivalent and crank in about 1500 - 2000 lbs. of force on the bottom of the case (with or without the requisite telephone book, hocky puck, etc.), then rotate the crank before, during and after the self-imposed load? Can you tell us what happens, if anything? Maybe attach a dial indicator on some appendage of the engine and see if it deflects, just a little.

If Henry or Steve @ Rennsport (sorry for the oversight Steve) or any other engine rebuilder responds with, "Hey Pcar, we've tried it, you're over-reacting. You're wrong. Take a deep breathe and relax. Go with the flow." Then I'll be fine .... for awhile. My next thread then might read: "What size telephone book would that be?"

Thanks,
Sherwood
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

john walker's workshop · 02-24-2006, 08:15 AM

i agree. it's just wrong.

Mr9146 · 02-24-2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 911pcars
Does anyone have a short or long block they'd like to offer for a test?

I've ranted, probably too often, about the negative effects of lifting the car using the engine as a lift point. I know, I know, many publications and web pages and many more owners say this as a safe and innocuous method to lift the back end.

I, OTOH, have always questioned this method. I think this places unnecessary stress on the engine (crankcase specifically). According to some third parties, some owners manuals suggest NOT to lift the car in this manner. I for one know the corporate suits go over this particular publication with a fine tooth comb since customers usually take those printed words as gospel.

However, there are many owners who think it's perfectly fine. They see their highly compensated tech do it - perhaps "spreading the load" a bit using a telephone book, block of wood or a hocky puck inbetween engine and jack. For many it's convenient. My favorite response is, "I haven't seen any changes because of this." My answer is, I applaud your keen sense of observation, but if you can see metal deflect .015", then sir, you are good. My stance may not make much difference in the universe of engine life expectancy. But I need validation. Like many of you, we're all infected with this marque. I just happen to be fixated on this for the moment. Bear with me.

So I pose this question to those who might be in an engine rebuilding mode. I address Henry at Supertec as one since he and his crew seem to be doing a fine job at rebuilding our engines and probably have a bunch they could offer up. I'd ask Dieter or whoever does this at Andial but I don't think they hang out here. Maybe someone could ring up MM.

So Henry, whom I've never met but kindly and generously provides us with good advice and photos of glistening rebuilds, can you take one (or several examples) of your customer's engines and place it on a hydraulic press or equivalent and crank in about 1500 - 2000 lbs. of force on the bottom of the case (with or without the requisite telephone book, hocky puck, etc.), then rotate the crank before, during and after the self-imposed load? Can you tell us what happens, if anything? Maybe attach a dial indicator on some appendage of the engine and see if it deflects, just a little.

If Henry or Steve @ Rennsport (sorry for the oversight Steve) or any other engine rebuilder responds with, "Hey Pcar, we've tried it, you're over-reacting. You're wrong. Take a deep breathe and relax. Go with the flow." Then I'll be fine .... for awhile. My next thread then might read: "What size telephone book would that be?"

Thanks,
Sherwood
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

HA!

Chas911 · 02-24-2006, 04:57 PM

EGG-XACTLY what I have been pondering as well. Especially in the newer (964 on up) cars. Owners manual specifically prohibits it. Why?
Also, what about motor mounts (again on the newer cars, I think pre 89 mounts can handle it.)

Steve@Rennsport · 02-24-2006, 06:06 PM

Hi Sherwood:

Great challenge,....

Let me see about doing just that and seeing if there is any crankshaft deflection in a mag & aluminum case.

I'd agree that its not the greatest thing for cars with hydraulic-filled mounts, but I've not seen ANY case-crank-bearing issues of any kind on cars with rubber or solid mounts over the past 30+ years. I must honestly tell you that I've seen the insides of a great many motors over that time,....

That said, this will be fun to do.

daepp · 02-24-2006, 06:26 PM

For the record: Henry, if you're reading this, please don't use my 2.4 as the guinea pig

911pcars · 02-24-2006, 09:00 PM

I'm sorry if I put a scare in you guys with engines at Henry's or Steve's. I'm sure they'll proceed with one of their "house" engines.

Hey Steve,
Thanks for humoring me. Can we get a National Geographic film crew up there to document this?

It's not quite Top Gear, but many of us have minimal entertainment thresholds.

Sherwood

HarryD · 02-24-2006, 11:01 PM

I too have always wondered about the wisdom of raising your car by it's single most expensive component. It sure would be fun to "witness" the test.

Steve@Rennsport · 02-24-2006, 11:17 PM

LOL,..I'm going to do this in my spare time and I'll let you know what I measure in each example.

RoninLB · 02-25-2006, 12:19 AM

Jacking up the rear (time for definitive answer)

Quote:

Originally posted by Roland Kunz
Hello

The sumpplate is very fragile and a NoNo.

Porsche used the rear engine carrier as they have special "Steinbock" lifters who direct snap in there.
It is also allowed to lift on the reinforcement rip from the trany witch is direct under the R&P Housing.

You also can lift on the ends from the emginecase where the Porsche lift tool sits on. Aluminiumcases ( 65-68 & 77- 2001 ) are tough enough to survive a misslift but the magnesium cases tend to leak slight ( more )oil afterwards.

Race cars have a special modified rear engine mount with a towhook and a lifterplate for fast lifting.

Grüsse