The 3.4 Big bore Idea was purposed by MM and is also available on Motor Meisters Web site here http://www.motormeister.com/suz/911_engines/911_engines_5.htm and as seen in the attached picture. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1142056195.gif

"stroker kit"....conjures up aptly appropriate images in my mind..
ryan

what a total nightmare, geez louise....glad you are half way out of the woods. let us know when your engine gets safely back home:)

Klober..that wasn't diercted at you;) it was a collective 'you'. When my engine required a rebuild those MM ads in pano screamed at me. I didn't make the move for a couple of reasons...I wanted a turn key rebuild and I wanted it done locally. I wanted to be able to get references and be able to return the car in the event of a problem...a local warranty on the work. I spent some time looking for the right guy. None of the local shops near me gave me a woody. As a matter of record I got the sense they were licking their chops on this job and I was getting that old rip off feeling. I finally found a prince of a man to do the work, an hour from my house. Recommended by a local Pelican. I checked out his shop, clean as a surgical suite and spent sometime talking to him. We sat down and planned the job out. He understood that this was not going to be a track car with the likely hood of being torn down every couple of seasons. His labor labor wasn't cheap, $4000 as I recall. Then add to that new parts, the 3.2 p&C, 964 cams, new oil pump, cooler, valves, chains, machine work, SSI's.. I topped 12 k real fast. That was when it really hit me as to what MM is doing. A cleanup, reseal and a patch job on worn components. Roy 'fixes' your engine, he doesn't rebuild it. Your old parts live along side of reconditioned parts from donor engines. I had called Roy in an effort to track down an SC distributor for my engine. Our conversation drifted to what I was having done to my engine and true to form he took a shot at my mechanic [Doug at VCI] by saying anyone can rebuild an engine with all new parts!! Nice!
Roy was also very interested in buying all the parts on my engine that I chose not to reuse. Not that there is anything wrong with those parts..but his approach to engine building was more like the backyard mechanic that wants to get the car back together and unload it. What does he charge you for my old oil cooler? I would love to see an invoice!
After 6 weeks or so I got my car back from VCI and I started to rack up the miles...sweet!! Unfortunately, I developed a nasty oil leak after about 3K miles and called Doug. My heart sang. I actually dreaded making the call..because we have all had the call back experience before... calling the shop and hearing..." hey, it was fine when it left here".
Doug had me flatbed the car to him, picked up the tab for the tow, found the source of the probelm, fixed the leak..no charge, no questions, no bull and he was as upset as I was that something had gone wrong. Like I said, a prince of a man.
Flip this story around and imagine the shop owner is Roy...this guy now has a million loop holes to stick you with..."Something happened in shipping", "you did something wrong installing the engine", "it was fine when it left here"..I would guess last on the list would be 'pull it and ship it back'! Your cheap rebuild has now racked up more miles as freight then it has in your car. The plus side is you get real good at engine drops.
Don't feel bad, looks like you dodged a bullet this time but you also need to look out for the shops that charge top dollar and do MM work.
Another plus with my experience...the guy I spoke to was the guy that did all the work..it wasn't handed off to the kid with the cellphone in his ear as "Junior's first rebuild". Ask around, there is a wealth of info on this board.

Well said Mysterytrain! To quote the guy doing the machine work on my 930 engine: "right is right...whether that be a full race engine or a street engine..." - Neil Harvey of Performance Developments

To make your 3.0L SC into a 3.4L, not only would the bore need to be increased but the stroke as well.

In addition to 98mm pistons/cylinders, you would also need the 74.4mm crank & rods from the 930/Carrera. I would expect the pistons/cylinders to be new parts (and hopefully from a reputable manufacturer) but there is nothing wrong with using a used crank & rods if they measure in spec. I would hope that I would be told that they are used parts and the price would be accordingly...

Using even larger 100mm p's/c's and retaining the stock SC crank you are only slightly above 3.3L in displacement (perhaps they are optimistically rounding up?). This also requires enlarging the spigot bores on your case from 103mm to 105mm, don't know how that could be part of a "kit".

102mm piston/cylinders would require extensive case modifications to ensure long-term reliability, I don't see how this could be done parts/machine work for anywhere remotely close to $3,295.

I know plenty of people with impeccable resumes that will build a long-block for $2K or motor with intake/exhaust/electrical fitted ready to install for $2.5K in labor. Stock parts, performance upgrades and detail oriented items such as powdercoating, cad/zinc plating, etc can be sourced for the customer or are supplied by the customer depending on the budget and the final outcome is as good as or exceeds what you will get from many shops.;) Not an infomercial or solicitation of business, but one certainly doesn't need to spend $3.5K-$4K in labor costs to believe they are getting a quality motor in return.:)

Ralph

!
 

Thanks for all of the great info. Makes you think, I can tell you one thing this WILL NOT happen again. Spent the day with a great pelican, we carefully went over then engine as far as appearance and took step by step pictures. Well Roy (MM) which is it? 1 st was toar down and then it wasn't touched? Why is my MM customer number all over my parts? Obviously MM unpacked the engine from when it was sent to him as my Mm number is all over it. The number is on the exhaust, clutch (pressure plate), oil cooler, A/C Comp (# writtin on back!..Roy..how are you going to write the number on the back of the unit without removing it? I cant get my hand back there?) Still plan to drain the oil (if there is any), perform a leak down, and other standard things. In all honestly looks as only the clutch was removed recently and the A/C compressor. I need to call the seller of the engine to make sure they did not do this. A side note! I am in Fort Collins, CO. This engine appears to be very nice and I would like to know if a pelican close to me would like to run the engine around for a few weeks to make sure there is not anything wrong. This of course after everything check outs. We all know MM touched it, but as I said...you could do a inspection yourself. The car this engine is going into is still down, if anything needs adjusted etc on the engine, it would be nice to get it done as my car is finished so I don't have down time. Let me know if you are interested. klober23@hotmail.com Will let everyone know what leak down and oil brings. Thanks ----> Pics taken on 3/11/06
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1142117233.jpg

Do they care as long as the evidently have piles of engines in the process of rebuilding?

I agree Craig. It will catch up to him..... Hey Roy (MM)...keeping this comment mind...can you say "Class Action Law Suit"? A little honesty might go a long way here...maybe you are barking up the wrong tree. I have another quote for you...."It's not what you know, but who you know...."

Colorado Pelicans, RMR-PCA and AMR-PCA members …

who has an SC with your engine apart?

If Jess’ engine tests OK, it would be beneficial for both parties to install his ’81 SC engine on your car. This allows your SC to be roadworthy (and pass emissions) while your engine is out and allow Jess to get some miles on his engine so it is ready when his ‘78SC is finished.

I’ll be glad to help.

If you have an ‘81SC, it is a direct install. Ideally with a ‘78SC he can attach the oxygen sensor and other to the engine to have an easy swap into a pre-Ox 911.

The engine appears as if it only has 20-40K. Some testing will probably confirm the condition. Not only did Jess dodge the MM bullet (hopefully) but it appears it might not need a rebuild within the next 10+ years. Want is another issue.

The disappointing part is apparently MM did more than just re-ship the engine. Certainly they weren’t truthful in their claim they “didn’t touch the engine.” The question to be resolved with forensic analysis is how much. If MM wanted to avoid controversy they should have been up-front about what was done. It seems even that is too much to expect.

As you might guess, I spent four hours with Jess today going over the engine, his plans and options. I was treated with his personally caught Alaska halibut for lunch and sent home with some. This is the first time I have been seriously out since before Christmas – (no?) thanks to the docs. Thanks Jess, you inspire new life in the old bod. Your skills far exceed mine.

Jess is a pre-med undergrad and one smart and talented youngster, well connected in real life. I suspect we will hear about him in the medical profession (as well as Porsche). First things first.

Best,
Grady

Ralph..2.5 k does that cover machining and R&R of the engine? Out here on the east coast a basic rebuild is between 8 and 12 k depending on the engine and what all is being done.
The labor in those estimates is between 3 and 5K for a turn key job.

Hi Ron,

I replied to you via PM, since I don't want to derail the thread. :)

Ralph

What was the final verdict on the motor?

FYI, I was just reading the new pano & noticed the MM ad (& by the way the new kick a** pelican ad). Anywho, I noted the cheap prices. The ad looks great!! I was sold. BUT having been minorly burnt on the internet I thought I would do a quick search for MOTOR MEISTER. Thank GOD for Pelicans!!!!

Another one saved! Motors seems to be great...I want to run in it someone elses car for a week or two to make sure.

Hey Grady,

I don't know if I can help with a donor car or not. I've got a 1980SC that is sans engine right now, and I will in all likelyhood be bringing it up to the Denver area to get the tub checked out. If there is anyway I could help I would love to. My car is essentially stripped though, and it had carbs and electromotive crankfire ignition in it which could add difficulty to the swap. But again if I can help in anyway I would gladly do it. I've got a Trans we could bolt up to it too, and all the electonics are still in the car. The two issues that would definetly have to be addressed is that with the Tec one I don't have the CD unit, and also I took out the alarm system and now the fuel pump wont run. E-Mail me if I can help.

Rich

Here is a picture of the car as it sits today. All suspension is there, the fuel tank is in there, the pump, ect ect. But driving it on the street could be a little uhh buggy in the teethy. I could easily get a seat in there too.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1142524002.jpg

wow. i am glad this is working out.

kudos to Roy for NOT chiming in here. i think he showed great restraint. me? i would have gotten all hot under the collar and started a fight. and that, we dont need.

Rich (Pelican Rich76_911s),

Wonderful offer, thanks. Jess needs a running ’78-’83 with the engine & trans out for work. Running Jess’ ‘81SC engine will keep the car running (very desirable) and let him have some miles put on the engine. His SC is a ways from body/chassis finish so it is conceivable that his engine could be available for some time.

I’m a firm believer in running the engine and not letting it just set unless well prepped to be stored. The engine has only been not running for about four weeks. If he can get it in a 911 and running then it can be brought back to good running, properly tuned and maintained and set to pass emissions. If need be, it can then be properly preserved to sit for a while.

The benefits to the car owner are the 911SC gets up and running rather than just setting. If need be, the car can pass emissions testing. If the car is an ’81 and earlier and is getting Colorado Collector’s Plates then this is the last emissions test until it is ever sold again. If someone has an ’82 and later hotrod, here is an opportunity to pass emissions test.

I think an appropriate agreement can be fashioned between the car owner and engine owner to protect everyone’s interests. At Rennenhaus I had loaner emissions engines that went into many different 911s.

I’ll volunteer to help fashion an agreement (I’m not an attorney and don’t give legal advice) and supervise/mediate the process. I’ll write a piece on the subtle differences encountered. This is a win-win-win for everyone.

This can be a DIY project with the two owners or it can be done by any number of very competent Colorado shops. If it goes to a shop, the preparation should be such that it is in and out in a day±. This is an easy process.


Rich, when are you bringing your 911 to Denver? What can I do to help?

Best,
Grady
gradyclay@hotmail.com

Supertec
 

Henry at Supertec is your man. He just finished rebuilding my 930 motor and I couldn't be happier. He's a small shop so don't expect it back in a week but he does a great job and he'll be very fair with you..........http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1142576051.jpg

Steve,

I agree Henry at Supertec is one of the best builders in the nation, along with a short-list of others. The issue for Jess is DIY. Having examined his engine from the outside, it appears he doesn’t need a rebuild at all. Some further testing will determine that.

He needs to have that engine up and running in another 911SC asap.

Best,
Grady

BTW, it looks like Henry did a spectacular job with your 930. Congratulations.
G.