3.6L conversion in a 78SC questions

[GaryR]

To any of you that have done this I would appreciate a bit of insight.

I am buying a 3.6L in great condition from a recent wreck (front end) and the plan is to use it in my 78SC track car for DE's. I've been to both Patrick's Motorsports and Instant-G (Steve Timmons) sites and have attempted to contact both for advice without success.

My biggest question is exactly what can I use (or is required) from the donor car? The engine and DME unit are on my list so far, and the coils are a must have also. Would it be easier to just go with a set of PMO's and be done with most of the electronics (for about $3.2K)? Are there VERY detailed instructions on the procedure? While I can turn wrenches fairly well, have no issues with engine in/out, and can read wiring schmatics "reasonably" well the thought of this scares me a bit..

Any input or experience would be greatly apprecaited!

[Jack Olsen]

Timmins' kit is the safest and smartest path, in my opinion. The frequently-asked-questions page on his website is a good way to start learning it. The kit itself includes extremely detailed instructions, and will make it clear exactly what you need.

(Get the 3.6 fuel pump, for example.)

You will love the reliability and flexibility of a DME-controlled engine. Unless you're making other mods to the motor, PMO's are a complicated and expensive step backwards, IMO.

[GaryR]

Thank you Jack. What i'm envisioning is designing this in a way so it is relatively easy to get my 3.0L back in for PCA G-Stock Club racing when its time for that. As far as modifications to the 3.6, I planned on running it as-is and if it should need work down the road I would have it "heated" up a bit "while i'm in there".

I'll go back to Timmon's site and look at the FAQ..

[3.6 911]

Hi Gary,
I was over at Steve's shop yesterday so he is around. I do know he has a lot on his plate. The FAQ on his sight is very helpful and if you have more questions keep trying you will eventually get him.

[Bill Verburg]

I agree w/ Jack and Bill, Instant-G (Steve Timmons) kit is the way to go.

About all you need from the doner car is the engine, harness to the DME, DME of course that includes the ignition components and fual injection components.

The CIS fuel pump used on your '78 is fine.

Use the Motronic, the electrical part isn't that bad and Steve will walk you through it.

Plan on some costly extras like oil cooling and exhaust.

[GaryR]

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
I agree w/ Jack and Bill, Instant-G (Steve Timmons) kit is the way to go.

About all you need from the doner car is the engine, harness to the DME, DME of course that includes the ignition components and fual injection components.

The CIS fuel pump used on your '78 is fine.

Use the Motronic, the electrical part isn't that bad and Steve will walk you through it.

Plan on some costly extras like oil cooling and exhaust.

Upon reading the FAQ I had most of my concerns addressed. The engine is coming complete with the DME and (I hope) the harness, will have to make it clear to the "dissasembler" I need it (DME harness) also. I have a front mounted cooler on my SC so I should be good as far as cooling goes, just have to buy a new exhaust and header set-up (don't need heat), the one Steve sells looks great and as long as the Supertrapp system keeps me under 93db (Limerock limits) I can use it. Other than that his kit with Sach's clutch, LWF flywheel, Centex chip, harness adapter, PS blockoff, etc. etc looks pretty complete. It actually seems like having it set up for an engine swap back to the 3.0 won't be that bad if I take care in mounting the DME and coils..

[mede8er]

I own Bill Howards old car Ruby, a meticulous resto of an 82 SC with a 3.6 Timmens engine....it is a ROCKET.....and the converstion is very clean with the Timmens kit....but I will say Steve Weiners ECU put the finshing touches to the car, as the FVD unit I got through Timmens was not mapped correctly, (It was not Timmens fault)....The varioram is extremely stable and produces plenty of usable horsepower, I would never consider carbs....

And as Bill Verburg stated, Upgraded exhaust and a 72 row cooler are must haves....

[3.6 911]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mede8er
[B]I own Bill Howards old car Ruby, a meticulous resto of an 82 SC with a 3.6 Timmens engine....it is a ROCKET.....and the converstion is very clean with the Timmens kit....


thanks, i'm glad she's treating you well. i'm currently in the market for a ealry 90's turbo or a 993. i can't make up my mind!

i might be mistaken (don't quote me) but i think steve is working with someone else for the varioram chips.

the conversion kits are complete and make the changeover fairly painless. if you can remove and replace the engine on your own you can do the conversion.

[jakermc]

I have a 3.6 coming from Timmins in a week or so.

For the exhaust, I am going with the stainless steel headers (no heat). Steve is not longer using the TRG stuff as the heat coating has not had great reliability (it flakes off and rusts). For the muffler, I am using Coast instead of the Supertrapps. Should be better performance and lighter:

http://www.coastfab.com/ultralights.html

The '78 fuel pump is not recommended. Use a pump from either a 3.2L or 3.6L engine. I had a 3.2L in my car previously, so I will be using the same pump. My old 3.0L pump could not even keep up with the 3.2L.

Steve has several engines available for sale at any given time. The bottleneck is the headers, the guy who fabs them for him is a bit slow. The eninge I chose is a '95 block with '96/'97 VarioRam parts. Basically a completely rebuilt engine done by Steve.

[Bill Verburg]

I agree that the Coasts are a better muffler alternative than Suprtrapps but since my '76 CIS fuel pump has functioned flawlessly since ~'93 w/ a 3.6 t/p, I must strongly disagree as to the fuel pump recommendation.

Where are you guys getting this from?

The cheapest exhaust alternative is stock 993 headers w/ the muffler of your choice in a custom fabbed arrangement

If you don't mind spending a few bucks then The B&B 1 3/4" headers have served me well.

Don't bother w/ SSI's

[jakermc]

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
I agree that the Coasts are a better muffler alternative than Suprtrapps but since my '76 CIS fuel pump has functioned flawlessly since ~'93 w/ a 3.6 t/p, I must strongly disagree as to the fuel pump recommendation.

Where are you guys getting this from?

This was direct advice from Timmins.

In my own experience, my SC fuel pump would cut out and blow the fuse trying to drive my 3.2L engine on the track. It kept happening on the same corner, an uphill off camber left-hander under full throttle. After I replaced it a few shops told me they would have expected that to have happened.

[3.6 911]

as i recall i used a '92 c2 fuel pump on my car. it worked fine and i guess it still does.

[Bill Verburg]

This was direct advice from Timmins.

very, very strange

13 yrs experience in my own car and not another problem that I have ever heard of

[GaryR]

WIll the newer fuel pump be an issue if I return the 3.0L into the car? Is there a pressure difference?

[GaryR]

Well, just got an email whining about getting the DME harness out, telling me that the flywheel has been sold, the starter has been sold, the blower motor has been sold, and GOD knows what else he sold off the motor and guess what... I am OUT of this particular deal... I don't want to drive 1000 miles to find out all i'm getting is a bare block... I was paying close to what Timmons sells a late model 964 engine for (this was a 91 that still isn't gasketed)..

[Jack Olsen]

Originally posted by GaryR
Will the newer fuel pump be an issue if I return the 3.0L into the car? Is there a pressure difference?

If Bill V. says the SC pump has worked fine on his car for all these years, I'd bet you'll be fine with the one you've got.

As a rule of thumb, Bill is never wrong.

[Jeff Alton]

What Jack said! Bill knows pretty much everything the rest of would like to know. Of course, as long he is around, we don't need to know!!

Cheers

[jevvy]

Originally posted by GaryR
Well, just got an email whining about getting the DME harness out, telling me that the flywheel has been sold, the starter has been sold, the blower motor has been sold, and GOD knows what else he sold off the motor and guess what... I am OUT of this bullcrap deal... I would rather buy a complete conversion from Timmons than be nickled and dimed by this loser.

Hi Mate

I dont think you need the Flywheel, Starter or blower motor for the conversion - you need a new flywheel anyway, you use the starter from your own gearbox and the blower motor might not fit anyway, most people remove it and replace it with a bypass pipe.

If its a good deal on the engine and you can still get the loom, DME, Heat Exchangers and Igniter(s) it might still be worth going for.

Good luck, its a fun project!

[BB911SC]

I use the stock SC fuel pump and the 944 green injectors, and have no problems with fueling.

[3.6 911]

Gary,
As we have all mentioned it's difficult to go wrong with the Timmins conversion kit. You may also want to check out some of the engines he has available. They are all tested and ready to go.