SWB question. Can I use 15x7 wheel?

[teachkenpo]

Hi, I have a 66 and 68. I have a chance to buy a set of fuchs for a good price. The number is 911 361 020.11 7jx15. I believe these are early 70's wheels. Will these work with either car? I know 15x6 are the right size, but these are the right price. I am looking at 195 or 205 60 tires. Another possibility is to use two of them in the rear and look for 2 15x6 for the front. I also know that alot of you prefer the narrow wheels, but I don't have a line on inexpensive ones right now. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
John

[Grady Clay]

John,

I have four of those exact same wheels on my ’68 with 185/70VR15 Michelins. The ’68 has a spacer in the rear that I removed. Under adverse conditions (cornering at the limit of traction) these tires touch the camber/toe adjusters in the rear without harm. The front fit just fine on the ’68 hubs. Your ’66 has narrower front hubs so it is possible you might need to space the fronts out somewhat. That is best done with replacing the entire front hub with the ’68-’73 hub (not only is it wider but has longer wheel studs).

A ’65-’67 has a wider inner lip on both front and rear fenders than a ’68. You will need to remove that to fit these wheels. You can cut it down so it is the same as the ’68 or you can roll it to even narrower. Rolling is preferable because it is reversible and won’t tend to catch the tire in the front. If you role it, have it professionally done around a 1/16” rod so there isn’t any “V”. If rolled, you will need to constantly clean and preserve that channel or it will rust. Tectyl is a good choice.

On your ’66, take note of the number of turns of the lug nut. The wheel stud length on ’65-’66 is very short and you most likely will need to install longer wheel studs. The ’68 has longer studs suitable for Fuchs.

Something else to seriously consider are current tires having far more grip than what was available for the SWB 911s. If these are show and very casual driving only then it is no big deal. If these are for serious sporting driving (DE, auto-X, pushing the limits of traction) then you must address suspension issues to be safe. You also need to insure the strength of the chassis (rust?)

If you start pushing the limit of traction, with these big tires & wheels up front it will tend to significantly increase over-steer. You will need to increase the front sway bar and decrease or remove the rear bar. The big fronts will also increase the braking ability. The brakes need to be up to the task. I have ‘67S vented in the rear and ’69-’73S vented in front. I also have the complete LWB RSR front suspension with many mods. My original ’68 suspension is resting quietly with about 10K miles.

If you decide to use narrower (6”) in front, the matching wheel to your 7” are the ’72 and later. These are easily available at a small fraction of the early “deep” ’69-’71 6x15” wheels.

Best,
Grady

[304065]

Rule #1, listen to Grady.

Hmm. You have what finance types call an arbitrage: you've got access to a set of sevens for less than the price of sixes. Therefore, you should buy the "flat" sevens and resell them here for fair market value to a racer who desparately wants them, then buy a set of "flat" sixes and send them to Al Reed and have them made to look like this:





These are with 205/60VR15 Pirellis. Note that they have been made to resemble the early 4-1/2" Fuchs, but have the advantage of being wider, cheaper, and have a safety bead (were designed for tubeless tires).

[Grady Clay]

John (teachkenpo),

John Cramer has a great suggestion here. You should seriously consider this.


John (Cramer), is there any way Al Reed (or others) can duplicate the original finish? It was a semi-matte finish and not mirror polished.

Another piece of trivia for your car is most of the Fuchs 4 ½ x 15 wheels on ‘67s used plain alu finish alloy lug nuts. The black anodized lug nuts started in ’68. I think I recall very early ’67 (’66 production) with chrome plated steel lug nuts in the same form as the alloy ones. Of course they were immediately thrown away and replaced with the trick light weight alloy ones.

Best,
Grady

[304065]

Grady, Al Reed and Harvey Weidman can both do the original frosty anodizing. It is more expensive than what you see on mine, which is a full polish, the "triangle" black paint followed by a clear powder coating. I chose this approach because it is an extremely low maintenance finish which literally comes clean with a garden hose and a quick swipe from a towel. It didn't seem cost-effective to duplicate the original finish on something so clearly not-original, but it can certainly be done.

Very, very interesting about the steel lug nuts, I wonder if there are any around? When my day comes it will be on 4-1/2" steelies with steel nuts and chrome hubcaps, but that's a great piece of info that is undocumented elsewhere!

Now if I could just find some NOS "Phoenix" tires in 165 width! They are listed on my Certificate of Authenticity. I suppose it's points off for a different brand of 165?

[FrayAdjacent911]

Buy the 15x7s, flip them for a profit, and find some good 15x6s that will fit without any buggery.

[teachkenpo]

Thank you all for the responses.
Grady I am very appreciative of your very detailed response. I can see that there is more to this than bolting on the wheels. I am not inclined to rolling the fenders, so 6" is probably the way to go. I am going to have to get the wheel/tire combo I want to end up with and then replace sway bars accordingly. I would like to find the right brakes also. I have just learned alot . Thanks
John, you have a great idea there that Grady and Matt seem to agree with. Buy the 7's and sell them for 6's, or just keep them for the 68 or the next car that needs them. The 7's are nicely polished and would look great on the right car.

Thanks all for the help.
John

[Grady Clay]

John (Pelican teachkenpo),

I really appreciate your comment;
“I can see that there is more to this than bolting on the wheels.”

This is the essence of Pelican.

There is more to everything than just screwing some parts together.


If no one has said it before:
Welcome to the Pelican Forum.

Best,
Grady

edit for a simple typo

[ttweed]

Originally posted by john_cramer
Grady, Al Reed and Harvey Weidman can both do the original frosty anodizing.

Only Harvey can really duplicate the factory finish on the original 4.5 x 15" Fuchs correctly, and it is $225/wheel, the last time I checked, with a 3 month backlog! The 4.5" had a finish different from any of the later Fuchs, including the RSR wheels. Only the edge of the rim and the flat of the 5 paddles are highly polished before anodizing. The rest of the rim surfaces are "linished", a rougher, hand finishing, which gives the surface a duller look when anodized. Then the paint is added in a triangle, only between the cut-outs and lugnuts, as John's picture shows, as well as the back of the rim. Here is a pic of an original 4.5" from my '67S:



I just did what John did with a set of polished 6x15s for the car, except that I didn't clearcoat them, I did a "scotchbrite pad" finish on them ala Bob Tilton, to dull them a bit, and painted the triangle. A much cheaper solution.



The bigger hub hole on the later 6s and 7s makes it impossible to paint the triangle in the same manner the factory did, but it is a minor detail. The paint actually surrounds the lug hole by about 1/8" on the originals. There's not enough room around the lug hole on the later rims to do that and make it look symmetrical, because the spokes are wider there with the bigger hub hole, which use the later ring-backed caps instead of the 3-prong.

TT

[ttweed]

Original 4.5 full rim shot:

[Soterik]

As long as we are showing what Harvey is capable of....here's an original 4.5 fuchs, widened to 6", and then refinished to OE specs.....

[Doug&Julie]

...so where can one find info on those 7s for sale?

[deanp]

John,

I am in MA and have 15x6's on my car. Would like to go to 15x7. My wheels are in decent shape but could stand a good refinishing. Maybe we can work something out? PM me.