distributor question

coldstart · 04-24-2006, 07:13 AM

I had a great day yesterday. Changed the plugs and the car ran great. The new plugs got rid of the strong idle vibrations that my car was experiencing (either running on 5 cylinders or poor spark from a plug).

However, I also was changing the points when I dropped the little screw that attaches the points to the distributor. I cannot find the screw. Any help as to the size/type of screw that I need-- that just sounds wrong.... Any help as to the size/type of screw that the distributor points uses?

stlrj · 07:44 AM

Before you give up, try a magnet from the auto part store that is long and narrow enough to get down to where you think you dropped it and I will garantee that the screw that attaches to the magnet will be the correct size and type.

Cheers,

Joe

Gunter · Gunter's Garage

Are you saying that you dropped the screw into the distributor?
Then you need to get it out.
If you dropped it somewhere else, try some small metric screws of similar size from your local hardware store. Canadian Tire carries metric screws. There is also a small lock washer with this screw.

stlrj · 04-24-2006, 10:25 AM

Regardless, you do not want a loose screw inside your distributor where it could jam the spinning centrifugal weights and springs.

You could also remove the distributor, turn it upside down and shake the screw out.

Joe

Early_S_Man · 04-24-2006, 01:24 PM

Time to remove, disassemble, and clean your distributor ... the dropped screw was a subcontious excuse to do this much-needed maintenance! This thread has all the info you need, including the advance curve for your particular distributor:

distributor lube...

coldstart · 04-24-2006, 01:42 PM

Great link to a great thread, Warren.

I am pretty sure I didn't drop it into the distributor but I wasn't paying full attention as it was my 120th attempt to land the screw.

My distributor looks pretty good so I will likely leave it alone. I was changing the points (I know I should upgrade) as my tach only worked sporadically (80%). I was on such a role! I cut a new trunk carpet and I replaced the plugs. Damn distributor....

304065 · 04-24-2006, 02:06 PM

Uh, if there is a 0.01% chance you dropped it into the distributor, you should remove it to check. It will take you all of fifteen minutes to follow these steps:

1: remove distributor cap and rotate the engine using a 22mm hex socket on the fan nut in a clockwise direction until the notch on the rotor is pointing at the radial line on the distributor housing and the Z1 mark on the crank pulley is opposite the notch in the fan housing. Do NOT move the crankshaft from this point, do not bump the starter.

2. remove nut from the distributor hold-down using 13mm wrench (I'm not certain of the nut size)

3. once the nut is removed, pull the distributor out from the engine and shake it vigorously until the nut comes out. If it doesn't fall out, then you should disassemble it, remove the points and the points carrier plate (you will have to take most of the screws out of the body to do this) and follow Warren's instructions exactly. While you are in there, get yourself some Bosch Distributor Grease from Pelican http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/PEL_search.cgi?command=show_part_page&please_wait=N&make=POR&model=911M&section=ELignt&page=7&bookmark=29&part_number=5-700-002-005-M114 and lube up the advance mechanism.

4. If you are satisfied that you haven't dropped the nut down in between the advance weights mechanism and the body of the distributor, then reassemble and reinsert the distributor with the rotor pointing to the notch on the distributor body. See if you can get a screw from a donor distributor, they are rarely available on the loose, but they are a cheese-head type. Tighten down the distributor to the case.

5. Using timing light, re-time the engine to the correct advance value. Don't spend too much time at 6000 rpm and whatever you do don't get anything caught in the rotating fan when you are hanging over the engine with the light.

RoninLB · 04-24-2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by coldstart

However, I also was changing the points when I dropped the little screw that attaches the points to the distributor. I cannot find the screw.

The engine mounted bracket that covers your crank pully traps lost fastners.

coldstart · 04-25-2006, 05:56 AM

Thanks for the advice. I'll check again tonight.

Mysterytrain · 04-25-2006, 06:40 AM

Just thought I would add fuel to the fire. I had the distributor on my SC seize. I'm not sure if it was the upper bearing or the advance weights that created the problem. Besides chewing up the distributor, a real horror story unfolded. With the shaft unable to spin, the the drive gear pin was sheared off and the drive gear dropped down into the intermediate shaft area where it got caught on the intermediate gear and violently pushed out of the side of the case! Not a big hole, silver dollar sized but fatal. If it was me, I would find the screw before you get screwed.

coldstart · 04-28-2006, 01:00 PM

I need some help as I'm dumB!

I took off from work early and figured I could install the new points this afternoon. I found the screw after removing the distributor (it was right below it).

However, I cannot figure out how to set the timing.

"until the notch on the rotor is pointing at the radial line on the distributor housing and the Z1 mark on the crank pulley is opposite the notch in the fan housing."

Firstly, I can't find the Z1 mark on the crank pulley (I'm not sure what is the crank pulley, I thought it was the part in front of the fan) and I don't see a notch in the fan housing. Secondly, can't find a notch on the rotor or the radial line on the distributor housing (I am fairly certain I know what both those parts are). I also tried to start the car, which was not recommended. I need help to finish this.

Early_S_Man · 02:10 PM

Z1 on pulley lined up with case centerline or fan housing notch at 6 O'clock position:

Cyl. #1 Notch on dist. body:

Gunter · Gunter's Garage

Warren said it; great reply with pix.
Coldstart: Clean the pulley and the bottome of the fan housing, you'll find the marks. (The split-line of the case is the mark)
Do not overtighten the little screw for the points, it should have a small lock-washer. Easy!
While you are at it: There is a small felt-plug inside the distributor shaft.
Carefully pry it out. Put a few drops of engine oil into the shaft. Replace the felt-plug. Wiggle the shaft from side to side; there should be no play.

How will you set the timing? Do you have a Stroboscope? (Timing light)
Without a Strob-light, you don't know where you are with the timing.

coldstart · 04-29-2006, 06:39 PM

Thanks for the points. I bought a timing light so I am ready for the next step.

I figured out TDC for the engine from the pics but I can't figure out how to adjust the position of the rotor on the distributor. Isn't there a notch in the rotor that can only fit into the distributor at one point? How do adjust that point with affecting TDC on the engine? I apologize for the basic questions but I'm lost and it looks like I'm not going to be able to take my baby to the meet tomorrow.

Early_S_Man · 04-29-2006, 08:14 PM

Maybe this edited pic will help ...

1. Loosen locknut arrowed in Red

2. Adjust timing by rotating distributor body

3. Tighten locknut

4. Verify timing hasn't changed after tightening ...

Eagledriver · 04-29-2006, 08:18 PM

You are correct in that the rotor only goes in in one direction. You want to have the rotor pointing at the notch when you install the distributor. If it's not there then you have to remove the distributor and rotate the shaft (by turning the rotor by hand) until the rotor points where you want it to.

You have to fiddle abit because the rotor will turn slightly as you lower the distributor into the case as the gears mesh. Just keep putting it in and pulling it out rotating it until you get it right.

Also to add complication, having the crank on Z1 isn't enough. You could have the crank 360 degrees off because the crank turns twice for every one turn of the distributor. This is why you are supposed to set it there before you remove the distributor. If you think this could be a problem for you (ie you don't know which turn the crankshaft is on) all is not lost.

To find TDC (Z1) for cylinder #1 you'll need to remove the intake valve cover (either side is ok). With the crankshaft at Z1 (exactly Z1 is important) try to wiggle the intake valve. If the intake valve wiggles for cylinder number 1 then you have found Z1 for cylinder #1. If the valve on number 1 is tight (starting to open) then you are 360 degrees off at you are at Z1 for #4. If you were to check the valve on #4 you'd find that it is open slightly when the #1 valve is closed all the way (wiggles). In this case you'd be at Z1 for #1.

-Andy

Gunter · Gunter's Garage

Coldstart: You had the distibutor out and most likely don't know where you are. Start again:
Take the distributor out. Set the points to the right gap.
Set engine to Z1 (TDC)
Remove left valve cover. (That's driver side #1,2,3 cylinder and you don't need to drain any oil for this))
Wiggle the rocker arm for #1 by grabbing it around the adjustment screw. (There is oil-suction under the "Elephant foot", so, overcome that, wiggle it good)
If it is loose, you are at #1 cylinder compression stroke, that's good.
If it is tight, rotate the engine one complete turn again to Z1.
Wiggle the rocker; it should be loose.
When you are sure that you are at compression stroke for #1, grab your distributor, make sure the rotor is firmly seated on the shaft all the way down. Then point he rotor to the notch on the edge of the housing.
Now insert the distributor into the engine all the way. Is the rotor still pointing at the notch? If not, pull the distributor out a little until you can turn the rotor to skip one tooth on the distributor gear even if it means that the rotor no longer points at the notch before you insert but will correct itself once it is all the way down.
All this time, the engine stays at Z1 and you have to play with the distibutor in/out - turn the rotor/shaft, re-insert until the rotor points to the notch.
Snug up the distributor hold-down nut; just enough so you can still turn the distributor by hand. Replace the valve cover.
Timing Stroboscope: I use the 12V from the rear fuse box for power and a good ground. Clamp the pick-up to the #1 ignition wire. Make a white paint mark on the pulley timing number so you can see it with the strobe light when the engine runs.
Start the engine making sure that the cables/wires are not getting caught. With engine warm, follow the directions for setting the timing.
Without a white paint mark on the pulley, it's difficult to see.
The strobe light hitting the paint mark will tell you if the timing is advanced, or retarded. Carefully rotate the distributor accordingly.
Watch out for the rotating belt/fan. Keep the wires clear. When the timing is set, stop the engine and tighten the distributor hold-down nut.

On a side note: On a real tune-up, the first thing to do is the valve clearance. Is yours set?
Plugs good? Ignition wires good? Correct firing order meaning: ignition wires from the cap going to the appropriate cylinders?
After the timing comes mixture adjust. How will you do that?

I am in B.C. If you want, you can call me for help.

coldstart · 04-30-2006, 03:46 PM

Thanks guys, especially Warren and Gunter, I couldn't have got it without your help! It turned out that the timing was out 180 degrees. It needed to be put at TDC plus two full rotations and then it started great. I got a timing light and she now runs beatifully. I missed the meet, but some friends and I took her out for a great spin.