Help!! Left rag in engine compartment!

[Kirk Lundmark]

I picked up my 1982 911 from storage yesterday. After about 15-20 minutes of driving in 45 degree temps in noticed a hot smell. I pulled over, opened the engine compartment and to my surpirse I saw the remnants of my shop towel wrapped around my fan belt. as well as bits and pieces all around the engine compartment. Engine was running fine. Oil guages read fine, full and not hot. I pulled out into the street to get into the church parking lot two blocks away. 1/2 a block from the lot I started blowing blue smoke, immediately shut it down and coasted to a stop. I let it set for 15 minutes and started it up. More blue smoke but no noises. I went back today with a new fan belt, installed and started it up. It blows blows blue for about 15-20 seconds and then appears to clear up a bit. If I let it set for a few minutes and restart I see blue smoke for the same period of time.

How much trouble am I in?

Stupid in Minnesota.

[jester911]

Make sure the belt is still tight. The rag may have jarred the pulleys out of adjustment and the belt could be slipping.

Is the blue smoke coming from the exhaust?

[450knotOffice]

Are you saying that blue smoke is coming out of the tailpipe or just the engine compartment in general?

If the smoke is coming out of the tailpipe, my guess would be a possible cylinder head overheat with oil somehow seeping past the valve guides into the combustion chamber.

You probably have pieces of rag laying all around your cylinder's cooling fins underneath the fan shroud too. At the very least I'm guessing that you'll need to pull your entire intake system off, along with the fan and cooling shroud so that you'll be able to see how much of the rag got down in there and then remove it all.

I'll keep my fingers crossed that you didn't overheat the engine big time but I have a bad feeling that you may have

[Jack Olsen]

I can't tell from your post. Did the car get driven for any time without a fan belt?

[rouxroux]

I can't tell you how many times I've seen this happen to Corvair owners. The pieces get injested and distributed over the jugs. Can cause an overheating problem.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by Kirk Lundmark
......opened the engine compartment and to my surpirse I saw the remnants of my shop towel wrapped around my fan belt.

It would appear by the statement that the belt was somewhat intact.

I'd go with what Scott said and look past the fan. It is posssible, but not likely, that a lot of rag is on top of one cylinder thus preventing proper coolling. You want to know about this. I'd also remove the new belt and spin the fan/alt by hand and watch and listen.

[Kirk Lundmark]

Thanks for the replys:

The belt was completely off the pulley.
I do not know how long the car was driven with out fan running.
Blue smoke comes out of tail pipe.
Fan spins freely with out any noise.

[Kirk Lundmark]

If I did overheat a head, what is the scenario for fixing? Is it as simple as identifying which jug overheaded and pulling that head and having a shop do a valve job? Pull both heads and have both done while I am in there as there is no way to tell if the other side sustained some damage? What would I look for to detemine if I need to replace a jug and cylinder?
I have both of Wayne's books and feel comfortable tackling anything that does not involve splitting the case.

[randywebb]

first see how much rag you can account for - see Zeke's post above.

[Grady Clay]

Kirk,

My sympathies, we have all done such things.

Don’t start it again, it is conceivable it could further damage itself.

The first thing I would do is to have the cranking compression measured, the cylinder leak test performed and the spark plugs carefully inspected. If you can’t DIY at home, have your 911SC towed to a reputable Porsche shop. That will give you valuable info to make some important decisions.

It is possible something got damaged. When the fan belt comes off the red alternator light comes on. Can you estimate how long that light was on?

There are possible two paths that you might find yourself going down. The first is all you have to do is remove the chards of the rag from the top of the cylinders, heads, oil cooler, heat exchangers, possibly heat control valves and air filter. With some careful driving it might be OK. If so, count your lucky stars.

The more grim possibility is the rings, cylinders and/or heads were damaged. Nikasil cylinders are far more tolerant than Alusil cylinders (your SC could have either) to the point the rings are annealed where you can twist them by hand. The heads could also have been damaged. Usually this is valve, valve guide or valve stem seal. The heads are easily repairable.

There are six individual heads and six individual piston-cylinder-rings-wrist pin sets. Rings are replaceable if both the pistons and cylinders are serviceable/repairable. The heads are easily rebuilt. Common practice is to repair all six at the same time. Otherwise is usually not advisable.


Please don’t despair. This is repairable and hopefully on the easy side. Don’t make any decisions without gathering good, reliable information. Don’t let someone disassemble your engine “to see.” You will find a lot of help here in interpreting the information and a good diversity of opinions as to how to proceed.

Best of luck,
Grady

[Kirk Lundmark]

Thanks again for the replies. I am sitting here freaking out that I fried my car for the season. Oh well, I have always wanted to drop my engine.

I do not recall seeing the alt light come on so I do not know how long it ran with out the fan. It was rather cool up here yesterday and I only drove it for 15-20 minutes top. I know that is plenty of time to get things heated up. I do know that from the time I first smelled something to the time I stopped it was only a minute or two. It had been sitting all winter so I was thinking that stuff was burning off the tail pipe etc.

Grady, I am thinking even if I remove the remnants of the rag from inside the engine I still have an oil burn problem?? I did start it earlier and it continues to smoke. It appears to come out of the tail pipe when one cylinder fires. It sort of "puffs".

Are cranking and compressions test easily done by a beginner?

I have been reading this forum for about a year and you guys are the best.

Thanks,
Kirk

[KCinBR]

When I read rag in fan belt it brought back bad memories.

Memories of my first Porsche 1973 914 I bought in 1977.
I had stuffed a rag in the left front corner of the engine compartment, I used if for checking the oil. The one day I noticed the rag was missing, no big deal I got another one........soon afterwards I started having trouble with vaporlock and over heating

You guessed it ...the rag had been injested into the cooling system by the fan, it turned dout to be a very expensive rag.

Hope you did not fry the motor like I did

[Jack Olsen]

Too late in this case, but it always makes sense to leave your keys on top of the towel you put over the engine.

[Grady Clay]

Kirk,

Yes the cranking compression test and the cylinder leak test are both easily done at home. You need the right tools and a source of compressed air. The tools are available from our host.

Use Wayne’s new search engine, there has been a LOT archived on Pelican about these procedures.

If you think one cylinder is involved, remove the spark plugs, keeping track of which cylinder, and post images. With this kind of overheating you will want to address all six cylinders if necessary to fix one.

The Twin Cities area has a strong PCA region (Nord Stern; Steve Sherf, mailto:ssherf@att.net, 612-867-1649, http://www.nordstern.org/) and many Pelicans. You may find local volunteers to help you and they may have the tools.


KC, more than weekly someone would drive up front at Rennenhaus in a 356, 912 or 914 and ask me to listen to this strange new noise. Almost invariably it was a red-rag in the fan. Almost always the rag was fully intact unless they had been driving for weeks. With my long skinny arm I would fish it out and send them happily on their way.

The difficulty with a 911 is the fan/fan belt will eat the rag, depositing the remnants on important cooling surfaces.

Moral of the story: Never ever leave anything loose in the engine compartment.
Look at my post Here

Best,
Grady

[Kirk Lundmark]

Grady,

Thank you so much for your time and expertise. I have to leave town for a couple of weeks but will pull the plugs and post pics later.

I will look for a leak down gauge and do the necessary testing.

Again, thank you.

Kirk

[PorscheFan1]

Hi Kirk,

This is Jeff, with the 83 Cab. Sorry to hear about the rag. Hopefully nothing major has happened. Just started mine the other day, so far, so good. Also, after removing the front truck carpets, found the original tool kit. I was very suprised. See you soon.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by Kirk Lundmark
. After about 15-20 minutes of driving in 45 degree temps I started blowing blue smoke, I went back today with a new fan belt, installed and started it up. It blows blows blue for about 15-20 seconds and then appears to clear up a bit. If I let it set for a few minutes and restart I see blue smoke for the same period of time.

I do not recall seeing the alt light come

It appears to come out of the tail pipe when one cylinder fires. It sort of "puffs".

If I did overheat a head, what is the scenario for fixing?

How much trouble am I in?

I have always wanted to drop my engine.

I have both of Wayne's books and feel comfortable tackling anything that does not involve splitting the case.

but will pull the plugs and post pics later.

if the engine operated without cooling far a few minutes it's probably kaput. Hopefully it's drivable until you're ready for a new adventure.

I've seen burnt exhaust valves spit thru the exhaust. If you toasted your pistons and rings the combustion chamber may see mucho oil. You may be soon able to fog out a tail gater. Maybe while you're gathering tools and info for the comp & leakdown testing ask around for a borescope?

from your replies it seems like you'll be able to build anything.

good luck..

[john walker's workshop]

it may only be smoking because it was sitting in storage and the oil that seeped past the rings (normal) has been blown into the muffler where it takes quite a long time to burn out. remove the fan housing and fish out all the rag bits, then run it enough so it stops smoking. i can't see one rag causing overheating bad enough to burn valves, collapse rings etc in 15 minutes. maybe it took 10 minutes of driving before it sucked the rag in. who knows. if it did, then nothing's going to change by running it again. they're pretty tough ya know.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by john walker's workshop
. i can't see one rag causing overheating bad enough to burn valves, collapse rings etc in 15 minutes.

I thought he ran it without a fan felt ?

[Kirk Lundmark]

I am sure that the oil that is burning is not residual from sitting. I started the car a couple of days before to make sure I had enough charge in the battery. I did take it for 100' drive and it smoked like a mosquito fogger. I pulled the plugs on cylinders 1-5 and all were very fouled and oily. Number six is a bugger to get at and will have to wait a couple of weeks.

On a good note I had called my insurance agent to get coverage from storage to my house. I called him after the breakdown to let him know I would need additional coverage for the drive home Sunday. He called today and thinks they will cover the damage. They have covered claims where people forgot to put oil in after a home oil change and also some one who put anti-freeze in their gas tank.

The claims adjuster told him to have me submit a claim.

I am having it towed to the local Porsche dealship for analysis and estimate.

I will keep you posted.

Again, thank you all for you insight.

Kirk