Loss of value on 86 Coupe if I remove AC

[rusnak]

I do my own AC work and live in an oven during the summer.

I'm sittin here wondering if shaving off a tenth of a second on the way to the grocery store entitles you to hold up a watermelon like a trophy or something.

[fintstone]

Mine puts out so much cold air that I have to turn it down because my knees get so numb it is hard to push in the clutch to shift.

[Tim Hancock]

My stock York based sytem that is pumping 134 puts out temps in the high 40's on a 90 deg day once I get to the highway
I have to turn it down as it gets too cold.

I am guessing that alot of folks who complain about their less than stellar AC performance, probably never even attempted to fix it. While the stock AC is in a 911 may not cool the car down quite as fast as a new modern car, it most certainly is capable of providing adequate cooling, just not as quickly. In Ohio, I use AC 90% of the time on my 40 mile commute home from work every day during the summer months. I won't even ride my motorcycle to work many days in the summer, because the ride home in the afternoon wearing leather gloves and jacket is just too unpleasant. My daily commute is taxing enough, let alone arriving at home sweating like a pig after a long stressful day.

[Dixie]

[quote]My right brain says keep it original. My left brain says it your 20 year old SPORTS CAR, do what you want[quote] So, what did you decide?

[89911]

You might want to factor in commuting I guess, since that seems to be the common denominator for those that want it and those that don't. I hate my 911 as a commuter. Everything that makes it a great sport car makes it a lousy commuter. Stiff clutch, Loud exhaust, poor ventilation and Yes, no AC. That is why I have an X5 with freezing AC, XM radio, Tiptronic, and Navigation.

[rusnak]

The X5 is a sweet commuter car, or cram the kids in and go kinda car. The 911 follows in the footsteps of the 356 as a great GT car. To me, you're in your element with minimal luggage, a full tank of gas, a thermos of great coffee, and an open highway. I take my 911 to out of town meetings, or when I get the urge to go away for the weekend. The 911 is a car with a lot of soul. It is a car with a spirit, which is what the Porsche magic is all about, in my opinion.

[kuehl]

Originally posted by c2 rower

My only apprehension is the loss of resale value so I'm trying to assess what kind of hit I would take if I sold it some day.

c2 rower,

Unless you are considering weight vs. horsepower, I would keep the air conditioning in the car for two reasons:

REASON 1: looking at your climate history, here:
http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/index.asp
If you consider any temp greater than say 78F + as "time to put on the a/c weather", in 2004 you had at least
58 days when the outside air temp was 78F +.

Considering that most of the "nice" driving days up here in the north east lay between April and October, you had nearly two months of "ac weather" (assuming those were not rain-out days and naturally a temperature change up to 78+ is noticeable for us northerner's as compared to someone who is use to more warmer southern days).

In 2005, you had 94 days, or 3 months of 78+ weather.

Thus far in 2006, from April through the end of this June you have had only 18 days of 78+ weather, much less than the previous years during the same month span.
Sometimes current events drive us to make fast choices without consideration of our past turns or the road ahead.

If you consider what is like for a 'passengar' to sit in the 911, if it is the spouse then he or she are either bored or terrified, hence they typically need more climate comforts as compared to a driver who is busy (terrifying the spouse ).

REASON 2: We ((Kuehl products)) receive numerous phone calls from either newbe buyers of the 911, and negotiating buyers, who ask the magical question:

Customer: "I just bought this xx year 911 and the previous owner removed all the ac parts, what do I need or need to do to put it back in .... yada ya". Or " I was thinking of buying this really nice early narrow body that does not have air, what would it take to ....."

The answer usually goes like this for the car that had factory air:
"Sir, throw away the old hoses, the York boat anchor, discard the drier and consider updating......etc".
And the customer responds, "And how many hours and how much would it cost?"
And we say "Figure you have about 20 hour to put it back together, then you got evacuation, charge and test with your ac shop, and then there is the parts cost".
And the customer says "OH!"

Then you have the car that did not have any air:
Customer, "What do I need, what kinda kit do you have, etc.".
We say "Figure, for a car that never had air, and you want it to blow colder than the factory, you will put in about 40 hours of labor, you'll have to drill a large hole through the bulkhead make a cut out under the passg. foot board, and drill a drain hole for the bottom of the evap condensation tube, and spend $XXXX.00 in new parts, you could save a few bucks getting used, try looking on Pelican, the Rennlist, or call so and so, avoid (choke) Epay".
The Customer usually says "Do you think I should try to find one with air already in it?"
What would you say.....

So, to answer your question "My only apprehension is the loss of resale value so I'm trying to assess what kind of hit I would take if I sold it some day."

The answer is a car without air conditioning is a less marketable car. That is not to say it won't sell at the price you want but rather it may take longer to find the right buyer.

I would imagine that "the buyer (in the future)" for your car is not the fella who bet the NASDAQ short last month (smile) and has $50k burning a hole in his pocket. The potential buyer is probably, or more likely, someone who has started to investigate what the 911 is, he may have a friend who has one, he may have poked around in a few and he is studying the 911 market. He is not alike a buyer making his first trip to the water cooler.

[kuehl]

c2 rower,

By the way, black absorbs more radiant energy; but a great example of the 911,

don't sell it ;>)

[burgermeister]

Originally posted by porschenut
It seems to me that non-existent AC wouldn't hurt the value any more than inoperative AC.

Having just completed the task of buying my first 911, it seems 80+% of the cars (including mine) are advertised as 'needing an AC recharge'. None are listed as AC INOP. Just for grins, I bought a can of 134 and hooked it up. The tell-tale hissing sound from the left front fender indicates that a recharge was going to be a VERY frequent occurence . Pretty much in line with my expectations.
Oddly enough, there are a number of other things wrong with the car, PPI nonwithstanding I think my limited maintenance dollars will go elsewhere for now. Will probably remove most of the stuff before too long, keeping the parts in the basement rather than the car - getting the OK to spend $2K for working AC on my irrational toy won't go over well with my otherwise understanding wife....

[KFC911]

Originally posted by burgermeister
Having just completed the task of buying my first 911, it seems 80+% of the cars (including mine) are advertised as 'needing an AC recharge'. None are listed as AC INOP. Just for grins, I bought a can of 134 and hooked it up. The tell-tale hissing sound from the left front fender indicates that a recharge was going to be a VERY frequent occurence . Pretty much in line with my expectations.

Welcome! Has your car been converted to R134? If not, then it's going to hiss that it likes R12 . Or...you can join the "church of lighter day saints" and ditch that sucker. In my case (I don't use a/c), the weight savings was a bonus, but after getting all of that crap out of my engine compartment so I can work on her, I felt like lifting the compressor over my head like a winning trophy! I know I'm not selling my car, but if that's a consideration, I'd leave the a/c intact just because of the demands of a "buyers's market".

[450knotOffice]

(Hmm. A revived old thread from a year ago. Still interesting though)

When I got my car three years ago the AC worked fine. The problem, however, was that 90% of the time I drove around with the top down, whereupon the AC become useless and pointless. Then someone somehow cracked a line and my R12 evaporated away. Bye Bye working AC. Right about that time I started discovering the joys of actually working on my own car and started hating the fact that most of the components were seriously hindering my ability to work on the car easily. I quickly made the decision to remove the entire AC system but kept the compressor and evaporator (and a few other parts). I have not regretted the decision for one day (although my wife and I did suffer through a 1/2 day road trip through a 100+ degree heatwave, which was admittedly miserable but did not change my mind overall).

The engine is so much easier to work on and looks so much better when the lid is open. As for noticing the weight removal, absolutely. The dynamics of the car changed in a positive way, not so much acceleration or braking but rather that sense of inertia in the back during those side to side transitions from one turn to another. It was definitely a noticeable and positive change for me.

I don't miss the AC a bit and could care less about the resale implications. I guess I have the RGruppe spirit (even if my car is too "new" )

[ianc]

Yes, an old thread.

It would seem that it totally depends on where you live. For myself, I live in very temperate Marin county, where AC is just not needed. For me, removing it was a no brainer.

Other people who live in TX or AZ or such places probably can't do without it, and I can respect that.

I think worrying about that kind of thing in terms of resale value is a mistake though. Say your car is worth ~12K$. How much do you think removing the AC will actually lower that by? Enough to worry about when you factor in the better performance and ease of maintenance along the way should you eventually (God forbid) decide to sell it? I don't think so... Added to that is the fact that when you do sell the car, odds are that you'll be selling it to someone relatively local. If you don't see the need for it, they probably won't either.

If you need it, keep it. If you don't ditch it. That simple,

ianc

[rusnak]

that's a very eloquent way to explain the value and practicality of AC, Ian. Way to go!

[89911]

I love these old "dug up" post. My reflection on this topic is simple; Anyone can find an old beater car, jump in it, turn on the AC after no maintenance ever, and drive the car into the ground with cold air blowing all the way. The design in the 911 is flawed. If it wasn't, this argument wouldn't surface.

[burgermeister]

Originally posted by KC911
Welcome! Has your car been converted to R134? If not, then it's going to hiss that it likes R12

Conversion entailed installing R134 valve onto R12 valve. Mostly wanted to find out how bad of a shape it was in. I did the same thing 5 years ago on a 1992 Chevy Cavalier that was getting low on juice late in its life. AC worked fine for another year until the compressor clutch relay bit the dust... no hissing for R12 or anything...

Since there is no pressure in my 911 AC system for more that 5 minutes after "recharge", and I have to remove the compressor to adjust the valves anyway, I think it will go straight to the attic in a little plastic bin ...other parts may follow, and the hoses are junk anyway from what I understand.

[KFC911]

Originally posted by burgermeister
Conversion entailed installing R134 valve onto R12 valve. .

Am I totally off base, but aren't the molecules of R134 smaller than R12, thus allowing the R134 to escape right through the barrier hoses? Anyways, I wholeheartedly agree with Ian's "Cliff's notes" version of the debate:

"If you need it, keep it. If you don't ditch it. That simple..."

[burgermeister]

Originally posted by KC911
Am I totally off base, but aren't the molecules of R134 smaller than R12, thus allowing the R134 to escape right through the barrier hoses?

Smaller, yes. Might leak out a bit quicker. Certainly not with an audible hissing... Helium for a balloon stays nicely contained by 0.03mm thick crap rubber (albeit at fairly low pressures) for a few days, and outside of hydrogen, molecules don't come any smaller than that...so certainly a 5mm thick hose ought to contain R134 for some amount of time.

As far as loss of value, I assumed that "AC needs Recharge" was a nice way of saying "Car does not have AC. Some extra obstruction present in engine compartment. Cool air will cost $2K". As long as the original parts would have been included in a nice box, I would not have considered the car to be worth any less due to AC removal.

Then again, I am considered nuts by many people.

"The difference between insanity and eccentricity is a few million dollars"

[KFC911]

Originally posted by burgermeister
Smaller, yes. Might leak out a bit quicker. Certainly not with an audible hissing...

Gotcha...

[barndoor]

Thats it,My AC and my Hi-Fi are coming out !(I'd say Stereo,but theres no such thing in a 911).IF we ever want to install AC in our 911's when we get old (and cant handle the heat),there will be new A/C technology that is cheap(er),light and efficient.Until then I kind of like rolling the windows down when it gets hot,if you go fast enough,there's plenty of fresh air.........

[911st]

+1