Carrera CV Boot Replacement
 

Had two cv boots ripped on the right side. Was worried about getting the axle nut off. 4' extension on the breaker bar, no problem. Started by putting rubber hose pieces on the studs to prevent damage. Large pry bar on the studs to hold the axle in place. I left the brake off while I was doing this. The lower shock bolt has to be taken off also, the axle will not come off with out doing it.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1159152572.jpg

THis is what the looked like after getting them off.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1159152760.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1159152799.jpg

I used a small drift the tap the end plate off the CV joint. After that was off, remove the circlip that holds the CV on the axle. I was able to just pull the CV off the end of the axle and on the driver side I used a large drift to lightly tap the CV off the axle. The axle was held in a vice so no pressure was put on the outboard CV. According to the manual you need to use a press to remove and replace the joint. Not so with mine.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1159153141.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1159153203.jpg
Clean the CV that is removable. Do not clean the outboard CV unless it is contaminated with dirt and sand. You can't get them clean without taking them apart. Looked almost new after cleaning.

What they looked like after cleaning.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1159153473.jpg

Had a blond moment while putting them back together.

Whats wrong with this picture?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1159153560.jpg

Forgot to put the clamps on before putting everything back together. :rolleyes:

Back together before the grease is put in. I only used half of the grease for the outboard CV's since you can't get the old grease out.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1159153650.jpg

With grease.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1159153697.jpg

New bolts and ready to go back on the car. Torqued the axle nut to 250ft lbs then put the breaker bar and extension to bring up to required torque 330 ft lbs. Am going to find a diesel mechanic (thanks to Grady Clay for this idea) to check the torque for me. Doing the second one was much quicker than the first and now I will know how to do it next time, 18 years from now :D

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1159154194.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1159154230.jpg

Nice work! I love threads like this with lots of pics and good explanation. It gives me the courage to go ahead and do it if need be. Thanks Michael.

I don't know why but I thought the axle nut was supposed to be tightened and loosened with the weight of the car on the wheels

Thanks Henri, was actually easier than I thought it was going to be.
Rick
As far as the car being on the ground that may be what should be done. I didn't find any reference to it in the searches or the books that I read. I can see where that might be easier on the suspension. There was very little movement of the suspension taking the nut off. It released with out any fight. I did check before I removed it to see if in fact it was above 250ft lbs by putting a large 1/2 torque wrench on and checking it. The wrench clicked easily at 250. If you find more about that let us know.

nice work perfect timing..... i am gonna be doing this exact job this week and im NOT a mechanic.... but i did stay at a holiday inn express last night..... :)

I'm doing this project too this week. The PS CV boots ripped both inner and outer. The inner one is easy enough. Done that a couple times now. But the outer one has me thinking a little bit. I mean if you can't get it all apart to clean it out why bother removing the entire axle from the car. Cause it's easier to work on?

It seems like to me that you could just remove the inner joint then remove the outer boot. Clean it the best you can, squirt grease in and slide the boot down the shaft and clamp it up. Then repack the inner joint and reinstall it. That way you don't have to worry about removing and re-torquing that nut to 250ft-lbs. Is this right or did I miss something?

until you have personally done the rubiks cube puzzle of CV 101, you'll will never experience the joys of it. thats why we carried (2) spares complete with coffee can lids duck taped to each end(keep grease and balls clean), hose clamped to off road race car frame. learned our lesson the hard way. good job. i watch my boots like a hawk!

Michael,

Great pictures and descriptions. Thank you. I archived your
thread with the other good VO joint threads.

You can disassemble the outboard CV joint by tipping the
axle half-shaft to the side and removing the balls and cage.

What did you use for sealant between the end cap and the
inboard CV joint? Porsche calls for some white sealant
included in the kit. I am concerned about having much
elastic material in the “sandwich” that the CV joint bolts
have to clamp and compress tight.

Good job. Remember to re-torque the bolts soon
(100-200 mi) and then regularly.

For others doing this, note how the joint is assembled.
You can get it assembled wide-to-wide and narrow-to-
narrow but the joint locks up and is non-functional.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1159192167.jpg


Best,
Grady

Is it important and if so why, that you line up the new re-assembled joint the way it came out? I'm NOT talking about Grady's ref. to the wide/narrow sections of an individual joint, I understand that very well. Is it important to line up the wide from the inboard joint w/ the wide from the outboard joint? Or is that even an issue?

The reason I ask is I did my 968 axle a couple of weeks ago and the markings I made came off when I cleaned the parts. I made sure the wide/narrow relationship was correct on both joints but failed to check what the relationship was between the inboard and outboard joint before I re-assembled the shaft.

I was also told it was a good idea to make the former outboard joint the "new" inboard joint and vice-versa, this has the affect of making the wear on the opposite sides of the joint's inner surfaces. Is this correct.

Fantastic job of documenting this task, I wouldn't have wanted to get anywhere near my camera when I was doing this and it's a damn good thing my wife was out of town too....

Bill,

That is a very good question. While I don’t think the rotational orientation of the inboard-to-outboard joint has much effect (unlike a universal joint) how do they come from the Lobro factory?

I agree with rearranging things to equalize wear.

Best,
Grady

Grady, I'm glad it's not a known no-no, I've been fretting that. In my mind I couldn't see that it would cause a problem but I don't have the mind of a German engineer!

Also, thanks for the reminder to recheck the torque on the bolts, I forgot all about that.

Grady,

I didn't use any sealant on the end plates. I have the Lobro kits which did not have anything to seal the end plates with. And yes you can line them up like Grady said. It becomes a solid axle. I didn't know you could get it wrong but I did what Grady said could happen on the first one. I will keep an eye on the endcaps to make sure it is not leaking grease.

Grady do you have to take off the metal that the boot attaches to to seperate the outboard CV and do I need to worry about the grease leaking or just watch and see what happens with it?

Charles, it just much easier to work on the part. I thought getting the axle off was going to be the hard part, but was just about the easiest thing I did.

Michael,

“…do you have to take off the metal that the boot attaches to to seperate the outboard CV….”
Yes, the shaft angle is more than the tin boot lip will allow. Simply tap it off like the end cap.

The Factory Carrera Workshop Manual shows installing some white sealant between the end of the CV joint and the end cap. While I like the idea of sealant, I don’t like having anything else in the “sandwich”, particularly something that has to be squeezed when the bolts are torqued.

Jim Sims did a great analysis of the clamping of CV joints. The critical point is to have steel-on-steel contact with no lubricant (or sealant). I’m considering making a slight cut on the outer corner of the joint and adding an O-ring.

I wonder if an aerosol sealant applied very thin and masked from the critical surfaces would work?

Best,
Grady

Bill,

Grease everywhere! Used dozens of rags and many trips to the wash room to wash my hands. I'm lucky to have a friend (the po of my car) that has a shop that I can do all this stuff in. Tools, parts washer, air tools, digital camera and large bolt/nut/washer selection. Have documented everything that I have done to the car with pictures. Used the pictures numerous time during the engine rebuild.

I am glad to find this especially insightful thread -I was thinking of taking a similar tack and was wondering what are the inherent problems and challenges … (?)

In my case (1989), the outer boot is torn so I was planning to do both (on the same axle). Can I temporarily repack the joint with grease (cable tie the split boot close) and continue driving for a week or so until I can get to it …?

I had at least 200+ miles on mine since I believe they split on the way to the track which is 200 miles away from home. I didn't realize that the outer joint would come out to allow cleaning and a repack until Grady replied. The picture of the opened cv with the old grease is how much was left after driving the 200+ miles before repairing. As long as your not on gravel roads and you get to it as soon as you can it should be ok.

Michael,

Confidence building super nice pictures...!

Since the outboard joint can not be disassembled I assume that there is enough arc motion to facilitate removal of the inboard joint and gain access to the boot(s)…

Is this a viable approach (if not, can the stub axle lock nut be removed without dismounting the wheel…)

Jascha

Jascha,

Thanks, I thought it was going to be a harder job than it was.
From what Grady said the outer joint can be disassembled and cleaned. My mechanic told me not to clean the grease out of a joint unless you take them apart and clean completely. Since I didn't know that when I did this I just added grease to the outside cv. The reason I thought this is, you just cant rebuild them. The cover on the outside cv that the boot is clamped to can be tapped off and that allows the joint to be taken apart. The nut can be removed with the wheel on the car. I ended up using a deep 11/4" impact socket with a long pipe on the breaker bar.

The other thing I did was to clamp the joints 180 degrees from each other so there was not a balance issue. Don't know if it makes a difference. Also make sure you don't clamp them in front of a bolt hole, I just about did that.

Yes, you could replace the boot by just pulling the inner joint off, but you would want to now that the boot failed very recently.

Grady, I like your idea of an aerosol sealant masked off. Good idea. There are many available on the market today that I would bet would do the trick. Certainly easier than and o-ring.

Cheers

Have any of you used a split type CV boot kits for temporary repair...?

Basically, the boot is made to overlap and bolt (weight might be an issue?) together at the seem -enabling a quick (and easy) repair.

Jascha

Michael,

To disassemble the outboard CV joint of a welded assembly; tap off the tin cover (it may have some sealant and is pressed on), tip the axle shaft until you can remove a ball bearing, repeat for the others and then the inner race (still attached to the axle shaft) and the cage will come out.

Reassemble mostly dry in reverse order. I would put the partial assembly (stub axle with outer race, balls, cage and axle shaft) in the freezer to get very cold. I would heat the tin cover with some sealant in place to around 100C and quickly install it over the cold CV joint and clamp it in place with C-clamps, vice, etc. Once things have set for a while, grease the CV joint. I use a small hand “grease gun” that has a ~3 mm plastic hose. The hose fits between the cage and races so you can get grease inside. Articulating the CV joint will spread the grease. Next install the new boot and clamps.

Now you are ready to install the inboard CV joint; clamps first, then boot, then tin and finally the CV joint (and end cap if used). I grease the completely assembled CV joint from the end cap end. Use the CV bolts and some nuts to get the tin covers clamped in place (with the bolt holes lined up!) right away and let set.


Jascha, I don’t recall seeing split boots like the swing axle VW and 356. If they are available please post a link. That would make an OK emergency solution. This won’t work for anything other than a slow-speed emergency fix. The split boots on a VW or 356 don’t rotate with the axle.


I don’t think this thread has the links to the other important threads.
Here they are.
Pelican rcecale, Randy’s classic thread.
”Reconstructing Constant Velocity (CV) Joints”

“CV Joints”
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/62514-cv-joint-disassembly.html
The following articles are a good reference for Lobro CV joints from Warren Hall:
http://volksweb.relitech.com/cvjoints.htm
http://www.type2.com/bartnik/cvjoints.htm
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62514&highlight=joint+% 2Aassembly
For those copying & pasting, here is the link to this thread.
”Carrera CV Boot Replacement“

Best,
Grady

Here one such place that sells (on eBay as well) the split type CV boot.

http://www.thecvman.com/

As you noted the concern should be if the high traveling speed (V) would unbalance the axle rotation via the centripetal added force (F=mV2/r) of the boot matting hardware ( <100 mph is probably OK...)

Regards,

Jascha

Grady sez...." The split boots on a VW or 356 don’t rotate with the axle".

How's that???

- Wil

Wil,

All the 356s and early VWs have swing axles. The axle
rotates inside the axle tube. The axle boot (red arrow) allows
for the angular movement of the axle tube relative to the
transmission side cover. It doesn’t rotate.
"
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1161031839.jpg "
© 1965; Elfrink, Henry; Porsche Technical Manual.

The original equipment axle boots were not split and are
installed during the transmission assemble. Only replacement
boots were split.

I suppose there are later VWs with Lobro CV joints that may
have aftermarket (or even VW) split boots. I just haven’t
seen one. If there is a suitable split boot, we all should know.
I can see getting gas in “Last Chance” Nevada and smelling
CV grease on a heat exchanger.:eek:

Best,
Grady:)

Ahhh.....indeed...I didn't follow originally....makes perfect sense.....

- Wil

Just did mine a couple of weeks ago. The tin on the outboard joint didn't want to move for anything and I didn't want to mess it up so i just left. it. I however clean the joint. Wipe out as much grease as you can. I then used brake cleaner swished the joint around a bit and dumped it out. I did this several time and after a bit the joint was no longer showing signs of grease. I am sure some was stuck someplace.
When time to repack cut off just the tip of the grease pack. You can then stick the pack down in the joint and slide it between the carrier and the outer race of the joint. You can the squeeze the grease right in the joint. After doing that I used a small syringe that I go from the drug store. I cut the end off so the whole end was open. I filled the syringe with grease and then squirted it into the joint. This worked fairly well to get the grease down into the joint. Then once you can't get anymore to go that way just start poking at the grease. Poke, poke, poke it will eventually work its way into the joint. I got both packs of grease into the outboard and inboard joints using this method. I wish I had pictures but I am still cleaning frigging grease off my self.

Split Boot
 

Here is the eBay way...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PORSCHE-SPLIT-CV-JOINT-BOOT-KIT_W0QQitemZ140041619903QQihZ004QQcategoryZ33729Q QtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


and looks like this

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1161037680.jpg

Jascha,

Thanks.

Well, that reseller (I think) is:
CV Restoration
9387 Spring Water Path
Jessup, MD 20794
1-800-338-2326 M-S, 8-6ET

This is probably some flea-bay who just turns the order. I suspect PelicanParts may be able to buy this and sell below this $25 retail.

I don’t see how people can stand that site it is so difficult to navigate.

The good news is that there is an emergency boot replacement. The bad news is everyone needs to look for this on a PPI because it is a very temporary fix at best.

Best,
Grady

clamp tightening
 

Can someone show a pic of the new clamps for the cv boot after install. I'm not sure exactly how to install these. How do you get them tight? Does the small tab pull through the slots like on the OEM clamps? Do I need a special tool to pinch the little tab sticking up?

thanks

Tommy

Not sure which clamps you have but the Lobro kits I used had the type of clamp that needed a crimp pliers for this purpose. It was $10 at Advanced Auto. Here is a better picture of the clamps I installed.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1163024765.jpg

yes, that's the type of clamp. so you don't bend the little tab from the underside up through one of the slots?

2 of my kits came with what looks like a "hose" clamp. the kind with the screw on it that tightens the clamp. any downside to using those?

Hopefully Grady will chime in on this one about the screw type clamps. The original ones that I took off were different than the new ones. This is what the crimper looks like.Crimper

Actually, if you do bend the narrow tab from the underside (over the top portion) you get an added degree of security for the clamp. The toothed edges provide the needed “hook” to facilitate the crimping. So if the toothed portion does not hold (slips) the bent tab keeps the ring from snapping open (hope this makes sense)

As noted in previous posts on the subject make sure that the crimp is not located in front of one of the holes on the hub. Center the crimp between the holes or you wont get the bolts back in.

question
 

Any comments on this question?

Question, I'm in the final stages of assembling the inboard joints and noticed that the cage has a different profile on the edges, one has a chamfer and one doesn't. Which edge goes towards the axle? Does it matter? My car is a 1980 SC.

Thanks

Skidder,

Welcome to the board. Are you talking about the cage or the piece that slides on to the axle? The piece that slides on to the axle will only go one way, the chamfer goes onto the axle first or the cir-clip will not fit on the axle. Tried it both ways when I did mine.

Thanks for the welcome!

This is the part I am referring to which I call the cage. The arrow points to the edge I am concerned with, one edge (pictured) is square while the other has an internal chamfer. Does the chamfered edge face the axle shaft or does it face the tranny hub? It looks like I can see the chamfer on your finished axle prior to grease telling me you put the chamfer on the tranny side of the joint.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1169063692.jpg

Thanks

Michael, great post - great pics! I'm going to give this a try B4 dropping the $$ to replace my driver side axle. My only concern is the age/mileage of my orig axle with the torn boot. Unless things look really worn when I get in there, I'm hoping a good cleaning and repack will do the trick. I've got 147,000 on the clock but records indicate that the passenger side axle was replaced at 110,000. How many miles on your axles?