An Oil Additive that is worth using

randywebb · 05:08 PM

summarized from a current Rennlist thread:

At each oil change, use an additive w/ ZPS in all non-cat 911s. Use it with all oils, including Mobil One. With the recent (2 yrs) accelerated rates of wear we see on cams, rockers, followers and other components that always used to go the distance, I think its prudent to do so.

GM makes a dandy one in a small bottle that works very nicely. Ask for the Break-in additive. Its in a small black bottle with the blue GM label. "EOS" and 1-2 oz. per oil change is plenty.

Mobil One is best oil, but Valvoline VR-1 is good and cheap in the 1 qt. bottles.

- Steve Weiner

Steve@Rennsport · 10-03-2006, 04:36 PM

Randy:

Spel my nayme rite,....ROFLMAO.

Weiner=me
Wiener=german sausage

88-diamondblue · 10-03-2006, 04:54 PM

Steve,

Your not the only one ROFLMAO

Jim Sims · 10-03-2006, 05:07 PM

This (ZPS = zinc phenolsulfonate?) seems to be a rather common oil additive; is it now being left out of blended motor oils?

randywebb · 10-03-2006, 05:07 PM

Sorry!

Steve@Rennsport · 10-03-2006, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Sims
This (ZPS = zinc phenolsulfonate?) seems to be a rather common oil additive; is it now being left out of blended motor oils?

It USED to be in all good oils, in varying percentages and now its all but gone except in diesel oils such as Delo & Rotella. With the implementation of cats on diesel engines, its only a matter of time before those oils will no longer have Z-P-S additives, too.

Its really critical to the life of any high-pressure metal rubbing surfaces like cams, rocker arms, cam followers, and rings. We've been seeing a lot more wear in these parts now than ever before (over the past 3+ years) and I think its due to reduction in these elements.

Emission · Emission's Garage

It sounds like it will clog a CAT. Correct?

Steve@Rennsport · 10-03-2006, 06:44 PM

It can shorten their life.

Remember now, the EPA has demanded that the cats last the life of the car, hence the changes in motor oil compostions.

Jim Sims · 10-03-2006, 07:50 PM

GM EOS = General Motors Engine Oil Supplement; part #1052368

Jim Sims · 10-03-2006, 08:03 PM

Some confusion on part number; last digit is either 7 or 8.

"Available from GM dealers for about $10 per bottle, Engine Oil Supplement (E.O.S.) carries PN 1052367 and is a highly concentrated mixture of several key oil additives. It is designed to protect against piston scuffing and camshaft wear during the break-in period. But because of its heavy zinc and phosphorus content--which is advertised at no more than 5 percent by weight--and the increased risk of catalyst failure from it, GM officially advises that E.O.S. is not intended for long-term use."

Probably hard on oxygen sensors too.

RSBob · RSBob's Garage

From first post:

Quote:

in all non-cat 911s.

pwd72s · 10-03-2006, 11:08 PM

Only 2 0z. per oil change????

Steve@Rennsport · 10-03-2006, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pwd72s
Only 2 0z. per oil change????

One could use up to 4 oz per oil change, but I think thats sufficient to do the job.

Its a matter of consistency and maintaining trace amounts to protect the engine. Certainly cat-less cars can use more without a penalty but IMHO; "less is more", up to a point.

dvkk · 10-03-2006, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Sims
.....because of its heavy zinc and phosphorus content--which is advertised at no more than 5 percent by weight--....

Check the label, Jim. I think you will find no more mention of the zinc additive. To me that means they took the zinc additive out.

GothingNC · 10-04-2006, 03:41 AM

I searched the Castrol site and they do not have Zinc listed on their product ingredients.

Kendall still uses the stuff.

http://www.kendallmotoroil.com/NR/rdonlyres/564D4F3C-C333-421D-A015-BB3031A927A8/0/K_GT1_HP_MO.pdf

cnavarro · 10-04-2006, 03:56 AM

The non-CA version of GM EOS (which I stock and use in all my older cars) has in excess of 6000 ppm of both Zinc and Phosphorus. The only product I found was higher was Diesel Service's Oil Extender, which also has 3000+ ppm of calcium (which is the standard detergent).

I tested 50+ oils and Kendal's product had the lowest Zn and P out of the non-synthetics and semi-synthetics. Castrol GTX 20w50 was in the 1200+ ppm of both Zn and P, right where Mobil-1 is. I also tested Brad Penn Racing 20w50 (which is the green stuff we all came to love from Kendall before Kendall was bought out), and it too is in the same range, but has lots of sodium (which must be the trademark component to Pennsylvania crude).

I'll try to get around to scanning in all the results and post them on my web site.

cnavarro · 10-04-2006, 04:45 AM

I'm having my wife compute the exact amount you need to add of the EOS to raise the level of Zn an P an arbitrary amount of 100ppm per quart (she's better at it than me), just so we can get this settled. I think you should have 1200-1400 ppm of both to be safe. The newest standards call for 800-900ppm max of both. Castrol Syntec 5w50 is an excellent example of a good oil that is low on both Zn and P at 900ppm.

Jim Sims · 10-04-2006, 05:44 AM

"Check the label, Jim. I think you will find no more mention of the zinc additive. To me that means they took the zinc additive out."

I don't have a label but that may explain the two different part numbers: one for CA w/o the Zn and P additives and one for the ROW with the additives. Need to pull up the MSDS sheets.

At this point, I wouldn't put much credence in any oil tests or websites unless the tests or assays were based on recently made stocks (with a known production date). It appears some of the formulations are changing at any time, especially the diesel oils this year.

cnavarro · 10-04-2006, 05:58 AM

I just did my testing a few months ago through Staveley Services, so all my data is very recent.

I'll retest once the diesel oils start coming out in their new reformulations just to verify. I'm actually still testing a few more oils - it seems like it's a never ending process.

cnavarro · 10-04-2006, 06:43 AM

Steve, 4 oz won't do much IMHO. Here's the math - you need 2/3 oz to raise the Zn and P by 100ppm per quart of oil. IE, if you use castrol syntec 5w50, for example, you need just shy of 23 oz of GM EOS to get you to 1200 ppm of Zn and P (from the 900 it starts with). The amount you should add is really dependent on what oil you start with. It's basically pointless to add it to some oils, because more isn't necessarily better as you already pointed out.