possible 964 C4 buy questions..

[bigchillcar]

65,000 miles and original clutch. no vent kit and aparently hasn't had the upgrade to add seals to cylinders to head. no body or paintwork, all original. top is good, but motor he says is 'slow'. owner says 'main oil seal' replaced last year..what is he meaning? says no deferred maintenance and owner has given me number to contact his mechanic with all questions.

comments?
ryan

[Don Plumley]

What year? If is is a 89-91:

Potentially Spendy...

C4 complex and expensive. Cylinder head seal may not be needed if it does not leak. Original clutch means DMF not replaced. No vent kit means you need the disty belt replaced.

If I were to get a 964 (underrated cars), I'd get a 92-94 C2

Don

[bigchillcar]

hi don,
bingggg....it's a '90. i'd asked the owner if he'd done the vent kit for the disty belt (said no). ditto on the dmf. he didn't say whether it's leaking at the cylinder heads, but i'm guessing no seal upgrade..haven't called his wrench yet. he mentioned the 'mail oil seal'..which one(s) do you think he might mean? car otherwise looks clean and maintained. i wanted a 993 C4, but can't justify the cost right now unless i go well over 100k mileage and those are kinda rare it seems. how many thousands would you knock from a 25k obo needing these upgrades? kelly's prices excellent condition private party and retail at 22.5k and 25.5k, respectively. i'm thinking maybe a 21-22k car.
ryan

[Don Plumley]

Hi Ryan,

Don't know what he means by main oil seal. Lot of seals on these cars. I am particularly worried about the AWD system. I believe there are two sensors on it that cost $1K each and they do go bad.

No disty vent is not an upgrade, it's a must do fix. So now you have to replace the disty belt - $400ish?? DMF/Clutch is $2.5-3K IIRC. You'll have to ask the wrench if the cylinders are weeping at all. If they are, that's a $10K problem.

I'm thinking $17-19ish car with a clean bill of health on the engine.

[bigchillcar]

thanks for the input, don. i'll speak with the wrench tomorrow. 17-19k seems low for a one-owner, cosmetically clean and clean bill of health on the engine, no? i suppose, too, that it depends upon how badly one wants the car and i do want the C4..just can't afford it in a 993..yet.
ryan

[911boost]

Ryan,

For comparison, I looked at a 1991 964 C4 that was silver with red interior. It had 138,000 miles, the engine had been resealed and had all of the documentation. The interior was pretty clean and the exterior had some rock chips etc. All and all I would say it was maybe a 7 out of 10 cosmetically, and although it had a lot of miles the engine ran well, no leaks and had paperwork.

It is at a dealership, and they wanted $19k for it.

I really liked the color combination, but my wife didn't.

Bill

[bigchillcar]

hi brian,
i'm with you - that color combo would be my first choice - classic porsche! this car looks like an 8 or 9 cosmetically, just has those standard wheels, though..at least they're clean. Heat and A/C are good as the electronic motors are new that control the various zones. Clutch he rates as a 6-7 though not slipping yet, certainly not new. n smoke on deceleration would suggest decent/good exhaust valve guides i'd think. Brake pistons all rebuilt or replaced last year. Motor for the top has been slow for three years.
ryan

[bigchillcar]

bill,
is that car still available, btw? is there a link? yes..i'm a whore..
ryan

[911boost]

I looked past the fact that the one you are looking at is a cab. That would raise the price some. Look carefully at the top and the motors and both are very $$ to fix. I had problems with the top in my 86 as well.

[911boost]

http://www.edcarrollmotorco.com/en_US/

Just search the used vehicles for Porsche. I know a salesman at Ed Carroll named Adolf. He prefers the older cars and is actually a pretty good guy. He told me the clutch had just been replaced along with some other work, and they have the documentation. The wheels are Modas by BBS, not sure if that is good or bad. They are definitley better than the Design 90's but not great.

Bill

[911boost]

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=206439462&dealer_id=595650&car_year=1991&model=911&num_records=&make2=&start_year=1981&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&search_type=used&distance=50&make=POR&color=&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=80521&advanced=&end_year=2007&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=3

Same car, better link.

[bigchillcar]

found it. agreed..the wheels are better than standard, but not by a whole lot. wish it were a cab..i've always had coupes, but want a cab now. dang it!
ryan

[JB36]

One of the cars I looked at when I was shopping around was a '91 C2. I looked it over myself and it seemed in good condition and ran well. I took it to a local shop that specializes in Porsches to do a PPI. It was missing the vent tube for the distributor and it didn't have the machined heads for the cylinder gaskets. It was also leaking between a cylinder and the case. I was advised only to purchase if I could get it a real good price. The seller wouldn't budge for less than 18.5K. I declined since too much money would have been needed to be invested to make the car right. Secondly, I questioned the seller's mechanic and the maintenance since he had no documention. The ozone tube should be checked for on 964s. The motor was also leaking after an engine reseal. I would question his mechanic as well.

I think you would be wise to walk away. 964s are typically worth only 15-25 K. Like others have stated, the costs to fix these problems are expensive. You'll end up losing a lot of money when you try and resell and look for that 993 you want. I purchased an '87 for less money and was much solid than the '91. It will hold it's value well and doesn't need costly repairs at least for now. I would only buy a 964 if came through ppi well. Good Luck

[bigchillcar]

damn..looks good in that autotrader link..

[911boost]

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&searchType=21&paId=196446510&pageNumber=0&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=ascending&sortfield=YEAR+ascending%2CPRICE+descending&certifiedOnly=false&recnum=24&leadExists=true&criteria=K-%7CE-%7CM-_41_%7CD-_386_%7CN-N%7CR-100%7CI-1%7CP-YEAR+ascending%2CPRICE+descending%7CQ-ascending%7CZ-80521&aff=national

Here is a nice 993 C4 cab

[bigchillcar]

lol..brian. yep, that's an 'acceptable' 993.. got any more great ideas i can't afford? haha!

jb: good points. i'm looking forward to speaking with the regular wrench..the owner has never touched it himself.
ryan

[911boost]

Yeah, just giving you a hard time (I have seen the 993 vs 964 threads). I just got a 92 964 turbo for myself after looking for a pretty long time, and although I am still tracking down the original owner, I did get a very comprehensive PPI.

[Jay H]

The lack of a dual distributor vent kit is a non issue. Just buy the kit for $15 to $20 and spend a half an hour installing it and you're done.

Also, at this age, any dual distributor belt that hasn't been replaced in 50,000 miles or in 5-10 years needs to be done whether or not the kit has been in place. It's good preventative maintenance on a rubber part that is so important on these dual plug motors.

Keep in mind that the cylinder to head leak is pretty rare. It does occur, but there are many 964's on the road that don't leak, never will leak or have been fixed long ago. I do agree that you must check for this leak before buying any early 964.

Good Luck!

Jay
90 964

[Brother]

Ryan, did your book deal go through or are you flying again?

[SLO-BOB]

Ryan,
The 964 is a great car. I'm very happy with mine. If I bought a pre 92 I would want a good deal on a well maintained car- something under $20k. Be prepared to pay a premium for a nice 92-94, but good deals can be had. I would expect to pay around $25k.