Having problems with windshield upgrade to 964 style.

[lindemans]

I indeed found the factory manual pages that describe the process, including filling the entire gap with sealing coumpound after the windshield has been glued.

@Phil:
The manual also mentions the use of templates, these are used to push the shield exactly far enough into the glue, such that the plane is aligned properly with the body frame. In other words: the windshield doesn't sticks out too much, and is not pushed too far down either.
How did you do this ?
Sense oof feeling, is is the glass plane flush with the surrounding body ?

[philipguziec]

Manuals. We don't need no stinkin' manuals.

We eyeballed it, and the windshield sits about flush with the body. That set it deep enough so the outer rubber trim flushes things nicely.

[Dennis Kalma]

Hopefully I am resurrecting what is an excellent and informative thread.

I am in the process of rebuilding my '89 car (fitting a 6 speed, complete rebuild etc etc) but also need to replace the windshield of my '75 that is currently in winter storage.

Based on this thread, I went and bought the 993 seals just to take a look at them and thought I would post a picture of the inner seal fitted to the '89 just to make sure that I have it right.

Anyway, here is the 993 inner seal fitted to the '89 flange

I gather the idea is to put the adhesive in the "pocket" between the edge of the seal and the body flange/windshield opening, idea is it gets glued mainly on the edge of the windshield to the body as well as the retention that the inner seal offers over the flange. And yes, I know that I'll need to clean the old sealant off of the opening before any of this gets done.....

Here is a photo of the outer seal....not sure how that works as I do not have a 993 windshield handy, but I do find it interesting that there is a "felt" section that must allow some movement or expansion on hot days or something....



The outer seal is a closed piece while the inner is, as you can see, will have a seam at the bottom where the two ends meet.

Anyway, for the folks that have done this, please confirm that my understanding is right and I'll go find my 993 windshield to fit to the '75 in the spring....

Thanks

Dennis

[philipguziec]

Sounds like you have it right. The adhesive goes in the v between the body and the seal and glues the windshield to the window frame. The outer seal snaps onto a lip on the windshield itself. Don't use too much adhesive as it squeezes out and can get into the groove in the windshield into which the outer seal snaps. I wound up installing the outer seal while the sealant was still wet because I was afraid I wouldn't get it past the ooze.

Good luck.

[Ryce Stallings]

Just to open up this discussion a bit I installed 964 quarter window glass using 993 seals in a 1977 911. This realy works well. You loose all the trim problems and the whole install is way simple and looks really clean. Highly recommended also.

By the way this was something that several people said couldn't be done with the 964 glass, only with 993 quarter glass but thats not the case. 964 glass works great.

The outer seal your showing with the felt is different from the one I used. The one I installed was rubber all the way. At least that's what I remember.

[vreference]

This is interesting - so the 993 glass does actually rest on, and is too large to fall through the opening? I've been toying with the idea of doing this for about a year because my glass is severly pitted. My 89 should have the 15MM seam and I gather this is a slam dunk other than getting the right amount of glue? If the glass rests on the seam I don't understand how you could have an issue with the glass being too deep or proud? It is the case that the 911 glass is too small and... would fall through the opening then - are the people who said glass-shops are using the same glass (911 & 964/993) for both cars not correct?

Any final verdict on the rear glass? The trim on my seal is broken and coming up and the whole mess generaly looks like hell. The trim isn't even available anymore apparently. Is there a seal (964 or 993) I could use with the 89 3.2 rear glass?

[philipguziec]

>It is the case that the 911 glass is too small and... would fall through the opening then - are the people who said glass-shops are using the same glass (911 & 964/993) for both cars not correct?

I have no idea.

In my case the 993 windshield had the retaining groove for the seal, so that is one reason to use it. I don't think the smaller windshield would be close enough to the edge of the opening to effectively glue it to the body, which is how this system works. With the glass glued in, it actually becomes part of the structure, stiffening the window opening.

[Dennis Kalma]

OK, so it seems we need a definitive answer whether the windshield dimensions are the same through the 3 relevant body styles - big bumper '74 to '89, 964 and 993. Also useful to know whether the actual window frame opening (right to the outer sheet metal/pillars/roof is the same through the 3 models.

It seems to be true that the flange changed from 10mm deep to 15 mm deep somewhere in the late '80's.

Anyone got a clue how to confirm all this?

Dennis

[onboost]

Rudy @ Axiom where are you... ?

I think he/they have a good handle on this topic..

[DG624]

I was going to replace the windshield (broken by tree limb) for my 86 Carrera with the later 964 and the trimless weatherstrip...now I am not so sure. I have heard (here) that this will work and have been reassured that you must have the 964 glass with the trimless weatherstrip.

The glued 993 may be better but that adds more complications and it is hard enough to get a windshield guy to mix parts. This should be part of the 101 Projects (or 102).

Can I assume that the 994 windshield will fit the '86 911 opening using the 994 weatherstrip? If I want to use the 993 with glue will that fit the 86 opening?

[SCHNELE]

I have a 993 glass on my car I can assure you it does fit.

[carslutt]

wow good info, so im guessing 993 glass not 964 will be going into my car at some point!....

[lindemans]

I fitted a 993 windshield in my 1989 - 911 a few months ago.
My 1989 3.2 (the last series 3.2-s) already got the 964 windowframe with the 964 windshield factory standard (964 seal without the alu strips).

The window frame flange of the 964 that you need to clip the inner 993 window seal onto is a bit smaller than the flange of the 993 but sufficient to mate with the 993 windshield. This smaller flange makes it important to carefully align the windshield when putting it in place.

The 911 models that have a window seal WITH the alu strips have an even smaller windowframe flange, here I would make sure that you have a broader bead of sealent applied to make sure it bonds to the ceramic coating around the window edge as well as to the inner seal you clip onto the window frame. I put the sealant on the windshield before fitting it in place.
After sealant cured, I filled the gap between windshield and windowframe with a suitable flexible black sealant.
Last step is to put the outer 993 weather strip around the windshield and it really looks great. Excellent fit, waterproof and silent.

About 911 windows in a 964 or vice versa:
Due to different flanges, an older style windshield (seal with alu strips) will not fit in an 964 body.
A 964 window in an older body does work, although the window/seal combination must have slightly less grip in the windowframe due to the smaller flange.

In any case the seal + windshield need to be matching pairs; don't mix seal / window types as the size of the panes are diferent.

[dshepp806]

Originally Posted by lindemans

I fitted a 993 windshield in my 1989 - 911 a few months ago.
My 1989 3.2 (the last series 3.2-s) already got the 964 windowframe with the 964 windshield factory standard (964 seal without the alu strips).

The window frame flange of the 964 that you need to clip the inner 993 window seal onto is a bit smaller than the flange of the 993 but sufficient to mate with the 993 windshield. This smaller flange makes it important to carefully align the windshield when putting it in place.

The 911 models that have a window seal WITH the alu strips have an even smaller windowframe flange, here I would make sure that you have a broader bead of sealent applied to make sure it bonds to the ceramic coating around the window edge as well as to the inner seal you clip onto the window frame. I put the sealant on the windshield before fitting it in place.
After sealant cured, I filled the gap between windshield and windowframe with a suitable flexible black sealant.
Last step is to put the outer 993 weather strip around the windshield and it really looks great. Excellent fit, waterproof and silent.

About 911 windows in a 964 or vice versa:
Due to different flanges, an older style windshield (seal with alu strips) will not fit in an 964 body.
A 964 window in an older body does work, although the window/seal combination must have slightly less grip in the windowframe due to the smaller flange.

In any case the seal + windshield need to be matching pairs; don't mix seal / window types as the size of the panes are diferent.

Good info....I've an 89 myself (3.2 L, Silver Anniv. Ed.) and noted that I did not have any aluminum strip.

So,..this means that it's a given' that it's a 964 WS and gasket? I guess, what I mean is that if I call the Porsche dealer and order the manufacturer's gasket for my year car, am I correct in assuming it to NOT be a 964 gasket? (i.e., one must match the gasket with the windshield, as you duly noted).

Thanks,

Doyle

[lindemans]

I actually did quite a bit of work to the body of my 1989 3.2 over the recent 2 years to treat initial small areas of rust; took the fenders off and the windshield out.

Especially when ordering new parts (small consumable items) I found out that my 3.2 had many 964 parts on it. The '89 3.2 was built in parallel with the 964 C4 that was already in the market at the same time. In fact the late 3.2-s have the body of the 964 as basis.

The factory modified the 964 fenders to fit the old style 3.2 bumpers. The difference you will notice in "the little access-door to the gas-filler-cap" in the left fender (don't know the right terminology for this in English) and the plumbing around this all: this is fully 964. This makes neither original left 3.2 fender nor left 964 fender fit this series of 1989-3.2s ! (the original 3.2 fender does not match with my gas-cap area, the original 964 fender does not match my front bumber area).

As said, same goes for the windshield and seal. I don't know exactly when Porsche introduced the change, but the last 1989 3.2-s indeed have the 964 WS+seal standard off factory. For these cars you need to order a 964 WS and 964 seal when you need replacement. My car is # 91ZKS150883 (convertible) and was delivered to its 1st owner on April 3, 1989 (in Germany).

This is indeed confusing when looking for parts; few specialists seem to be aware of the specifics of this intermediate series.
Knowing the differences now, for some parts I simple state that I have a 1988 3.2 and for some parts I state having a 964 to make sure I get the right part....

Those specialists who are aware confirm my findings; I also know for sure my car is not a DIY mix and match vehicle...

[stlrj]

Does anyone have a picture of a 993 windshield groove? I'd like to see how the outer seal fits on it so I can plan my Spring project too.

[lindemans]

@ stlrj: This is what the detail looks like; the drawing of the windshield groove I copied from a 993 manual, rest I edited around myself.




This is what the 993 windshield looks like on my 1989 3.2 (with originally a 964 windshield fitted as described in my previous posting):

[stlrj]

Thanks, that's just what I needed to know and that is exactly the look I want. Beautiful!

[DG624]

I have been assured that the trimless windshield seal will work with my 86 Carrera...but has anyone used the trimless rear window seal and does that require the 89 rear window?

[lindemans]

You must in any case keep the right seal and glass together model wise.
Don't just use new style seal with the old glass (dimensions of the glass are slightly different).