Having problems with windshield upgrade to 964 style.

[Zeke]

A week ago I ran into some accident debris on the freeeway not cleaned up yet. The car in front kicked up a large piece of metal and it smashed my hood and windshield. I've read here all along that the 964 windshield AND seal makes for a very nice installation over the current '88 set up with the metal trim.

I bought a seal and anticipated a more expensive windshield. My problem is, insurance is covering this and the shops won't do it because of liability (I guess). Is this worth all this hassle???

I know I could install it myself, but I can't find a place to buy the damn glass. Well, I could lay down and pay stone retail, but that ain't gonna happen since the ins co is going to give me half of what this will cost.

[EarlyPorsche]

I would just install a windshield that is easy to install and insurance will pay for, the original.

[jdowty3]

why not just tell your insurance company the damaged windshield is the 964 version and you want it replaced with the same. The installer shouldn't care as long as they get paid and the installation is easier.

[jorian]

It's my understanding that the trim is supposed to be cosmetically better, quieter and also better at keeping out moisture. I have the upgrade and my w/s STILL leaks ands whistles!

[Zeke]

Originally posted by jdowty3
why not just tell your insurance company the damaged windshield is the 964 version and you want it replaced with the same. The installer shouldn't care as long as they get paid and the installation is easier.

Becasue the claim paperwork identifies the car as an '88 and the '88 w/s is cheaper by at least $100. I asked to upgrade providing my own seal along with the difference in cash and they said no way. Apparently, they would want to back date it to stock, or worse yet, use the smaller 911 glass in my new seal.

I'll have to buy the glass on my own. Another thing, last windshield I had done on a 911 was in '94. The installer insisted on putting te butyl sealant in the seal after installation. Ever tried removing one with that crap in there? I'd rather just put the glass in as the factory did.

[Craig 930 RS]

Above all, the 964 WS is significantly more "aero"; not just 'internet-discussion aero', but a measurable difference, as this junction is a significant source of drag on earlier 911s.

Hell, I'd give it a try, but have no actual help to offer other than to offer up a bit of information -

[ChrisBennet]

My '86 had and now my '80 911 has a 964 seal and windshield.
-Chris

[cgarr]

Chris, is this something you could post a picture? I would really like to go trimless too..

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by cgarr
Chris, is this something you could post a picture? I would really like to go trimless too..

Maybe when it warms up later this week. Right now it's covered with a frozen car cover.
-Chris

[randywebb]

I wouldn't be surprised by that, but what is the source for that bit of aero information??

[Zeke]

Originally posted by randywebb
I wouldn't be surprised by that, but what is the source for that bit of aero information??

Ah, come on Randy, run your hand over the upper area. If the outside mirrors can make a difference, the lack of metal trim across the top and both sides can too. I don't think it's a lot and that's not why I'm trying to do it.

For the record, there hve been many threads on this. It's all been sorted out in the past. You need a 964 windshield AND a 964 seal to do this. I'm not after that info, I'm after a windshield. Where do they come from?

[Craig 930 RS]

It isn't a ton - yet that junction is absolutely one of the most critical areas for aero on a car. Yup, it's true.
The CD difference between a 911 and a 964 is quite large - and it isn't all from the front bumper.
That said, I think I'll stay with what I have until, for example, the trim and windshield take a direct hit. Then it makes sense.

[Jeff Alton]

Jack Olsen has a place where he gets glass CHEAP, but I can't remember where.

Cheers

[khamul02]

Well, I guess anyone asking any questions about this process will come to the same place you are Milt. I've not seen this conversion but it sounds interesting if the glass isn't a pain to find.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by catca
Jack Olsen has a place where he gets glass CHEAP, but I can't remember where.

Cheers

And he sent me the number of Gus. But, Gus doesn't answer that number anymore. We are waiting for another Pelican to see if he knows where the guy went.

That having been said, John Walker tells me that early glass w/o a band or antenna, and not German, is very cheap. Like $120 (sometimes installed!!!) TRE has some nice original stuff for the early cars. but, more like 600 for the 964 glass.

[randywebb]

not trying to hijack your thread, but he said "significant source of drag"

- if it's supported I'd like to read up on it -- I may learn something, tho I don't play with wind tunnels much anymore.

[Jack Olsen]

Significant is not all that precise a word. But the original 911 design has an aero issue just behind the windshield.



How much would the smoother 964 arrangement help? I don't know.

[island911]

Randy, I think he's trying to say our earlier seals look girly.

FWIW, I wouldn't doubt a lowering of Cd -- i'm amazed at how much wind noise is produced at the WS top edge.

[island911]

Jack, as pretty as that CFD velocity map/picture is, it's too crude to represent the seal detail. . .. and the associated flow.

[VFR750]

Interesting how the flag mirrors affect the surface flow. Neat picture. I always though the headlight would make great air intakes. Guess this proves it, almost full ram pressure recovery (near zero Mach) Should we put the oil cooler there, and move the headlight somewhere else