Gap between Rubber Windshield Seal & Body

[sj911T]

Hi All,

Does anyone know if the seal with a part number 911 541 225 04 will work for a 1970 targa? Have you used this one? Is there another seal I need to find?

What changed from the original version to this part. I need help quick, my window came out easy, the dash removal fun, the dash install exciting and now I just need to put the window in.

Thanks,

Chris

[universeman]

My experience after buying 3-4 seals from PP is that if it will fit on your glass, and your trim goes in, you're fine. I literally had 3 different PNs of seals, and all three fit well. Porsche brand is the highest quality. The ones they sell here should work just fine.

Make sure you adjust the trim after you get the window in. Whole job is a bit of a pain.

[911 tweaks]

a bit a stray of this thread, but, how does the windshield radio antenna wire go/get positioned...?
I know a rope is used to pull the inner lip of the seal to the inside of the car, but what is the trick to not damage the antenna wire so it can poke thru just inside the windshield mounting area and go into the front trunk...?? (hint: I tried heating up an awl and melted a sm hole thru the windshield seal and I have a water leak into the cabin and the old seal is long gone...)
Any tips greatly appreciated...thx, bob

[sj911T]

Thanks Universeman.....I have seal on the glass and the trim pressed in, but the whole assembly on my targa top roof for now. Day by day it will happen.


Does the joining seam the makes two ends of the seal need to be on the middle top, middle bottom or it doesnt matter?

Chris

[kgieg]

Great thread! One thing to think about in terms of sealants is that they can seal water in also. I would never use silicone on a car body, you can never remove the stuff and it will fail. The trim massaging is the way to go!

[arrivederci]

One other bit of advice on roping the window in...I do solo glass installs and that can be tricky when you don't have someone applying pressure to the windshield from the outside. To help with this, I run two ropes through the channel. That allows me to go twice around and ensure it is fully seated in the event one or two little bits are not properly seated in the frame. The second rope gives me more margin for error. The alternative when the seal isn't fully seated is to remove the whole package, reinstall the rope, re-lube, and try again.

[Discseven]

Randy, that's a small gap compared to some. You might be able to push that corner out with wood against the metal & rubber at the same time... then the space between the metal molding at the center may need a stay inserted to keep the rubber in place at the corners. Stay obviously fits behind the trim piece that covers the space.

That "pushing" technique works to a point. Basically the rubber seal is moving out/away from the glass inside. That can create other issues. Shimming the edge of the glass is another possible method. Again, seal is moving away from glass. Problem is making one mod creates yet another problem to solve.

I have same issue with '80 Targa. Tried the "push" just mentioned... also new seal... also new glass and new seal... also shimming edge of glass----it's been never-ending-gapping-nightmare with one solve leading to next problem. Finally called "professional" Porsche glass installer with proven credentials and wisely advised I'd only pay if he solved the puzzle. He couldn't.

Agree that water getting down in there is bad news. Bottom of A-pillar will pool with water and rot out over time.

My solution = flat black electric tape. Yeah... cheapocrappy idea!---I know. But hold on... It does work. And positioned with some finesse, flat black electrical tape blends in with rubber seal---so if you don't know it's there... it's not noticed. Going for Concourse judging with you're car? This is beyond a bad idea. Want to keep the bottom of A-pillar from rotting? This is a way. There are a few things that make electrical tape work. Pulling the tape to make what appears to be a nice corner... looks good until you walk away. Then tape shrinks and pulls off at corners. Got to "turn the corner" with just the right tension on the tape so that it turns AND stays attached to car. Also got to position tape with a clean line all around or... you'll hate it and blame me. Crescent moons get cut into wiper boob areas. Don't do this and tape will pull off at the boobs. Electrical tape eventually gets dry and needs replacement. How soon depends on if car is parked in direct sun or shade. Lots of ways to skin a cat. This is just one.

[Ian Comerford]

Not sure I agree that sealant is bad, if properly applied it works really well. I had a 964 screen and seal fitted to my 79 SC about eight years ago and the fitter recommended running a bead of sealant into the void between the seal and the body. He left me some wipes as he said it would expand slightly over the next couple of days and the excess would need cleaning off. Removing the screen and seal for a bodywork refurb five months ago showed that the sealant had stopped anything getting in. Just find a guy who knows what he is doing.

Ian

[bcgreen]

This being an old thread, I will give it a try today and hopefully not open up a can of worms. Tried last night with the trim not moving, I just got a lot of wood particles flying off my wood tool. If this doesn't work I may not have any alternative than to go with the 3M Strip Calk.

[47silver]

need to use a very thin piece of wood with the radius similar to the curve of the rubber. put the wood between the glass and the rubber seal.
Raise the end of the wood up with a thin piece of plastic (so it will not scratch the window). Use a plastic dead blow hammer. takes a while but I works

[bcgreen]

Thanks. It worked, but did take multiple blows, some greater than others. I didn't push the wood between the glass and the seal. I just put it against the alum at an angle so it wouldn't slip.

[porschenut]

Glad to hear it worked. The best way is to insert the end of the wood piece between the aluminum trim and the seal, so that the edge of the wood piece is contacting the side of the 'T' , and can't slip and scratch the trim.

With a fresh new seal and new installation, it only takes a few very light taps with a rubber mallet in each corner. If the seal is older and it's been set that way for a while, it may take more effort to get it to move.

[spoke]

Great thread. My new (as of 2012) seal and glass has the gap like has been described as well as a leak in the driver footwell.

I tried the wood wedge and it seemed to work ok but I've managed to pop out the corner of the trim from the seal. How do I "pop" the trim ring back in?

TIA.

[RDM]

The metal trim has a tang that points outward. If you can get ahold of the seal to pull it outward and up, the ridge inside the seal may catch the tang.

[toddu]

Are there scenarios where trying to tap the trim in the corners just won't do it? Mine is just shy in the drivers side top and I've been trying to tap the trim. I need to find a better piece of wood to shape, but it doesn't appear that the trim/seal is moving at all. Perhaps I'm not able to get parallel enough with the piece of wood I currently have? (so it's too much "down" and not enough "out"). I was excited to get the new window/seal in after all of the horror stories read, and this is the only imperfection I'm dealing with :-(.

Todd

[47silver]

Takes time be gentle it will go. I used a large plastic deadblow hammer to hit the wooden plinth

[scarceller]

You may need to reshape the trim then put it back in again.

Originally Posted by toddu

Are there scenarios where trying to tap the trim in the corners just won't do it? Mine is just shy in the drivers side top and I've been trying to tap the trim. I need to find a better piece of wood to shape, but it doesn't appear that the trim/seal is moving at all. Perhaps I'm not able to get parallel enough with the piece of wood I currently have? (so it's too much "down" and not enough "out"). I was excited to get the new window/seal in after all of the horror stories read, and this is the only imperfection I'm dealing with :-(.

Todd

[47silver]

I put the plinth between the seal and windshield.
your trim does not look like it is seated in that corner.

[Liam O]

Originally Posted by Randy Blaylock

Guys, the soft aluminum trim insert in the rubber is what gives the seal it's shape, especially in the corners. It's not critical to have the glass itself perfectly centered, within reason of course.

You can easily close this gap, or gaps at any of the corners, so the seal lip covers the gap. There is enough overlap in the channel of the seal where it wraps around the glass to accommodate this process.

I usually use a piece of wooden shim material like you can get at any hardware store, used for framing up doors and windows. It's a tapered piece of usually pretty soft wood, around 1-1/2 inches wide. Take a file and put a small edge on the thin end, maybe 3/16 to 1/4 inch, with a small radius shape to it width wise that resembles the shape of the aluminum trim in the corners. You could also use the rubber end of a mallet handle, or anything that isn't very hard and has a rounded shape.

Place the tool of your choice so that it contacts the aluminum trim piece on it's inside edge, aligning the tool as flat as you can against the glass while still maintaining a "bite" so to speak against the trim, and using a rubber mallet very gently, strike the tool as needed to move and shape the trim as needed.

Obviously you want to do this gently, using short swings mostly just with the wrist, and make sure to keep the impact vector as close to parallel to the glass as possible. You're basically just sliding the mallet over the glass towards the "persuader".

Along the straighter edges, like the top, bottom and sides, just push the seal out a bit with your fingers to cover the edges of the opening. The seal is designed to take up the space between the edge of the glass and the the opening in the body, and doesn't need to be tight around the glass itself.

I have used this method for years and have yet to break the glass, and have never had a leaky seal.

This makes a lot of sense to me.

[toddu]

So, to circle back on my situation - I traced around the aluminum trim of each upper corner and the offending corner had a much “softer” radius than the other corner. I then got some wood wedges (e.g. for framing doors, etc) and shaped one to the radius of the good corner. I heated the seal up a little and used the wood wedge on the corner. It naturally wanted to go under the trim and it bottomed out on the “L” that goes into the channel. This was far more successful than a wooden dowel piece on the edge of the trim in the corner, which I don’t think moved at all.. Still a little more finessing, but not more visible gap!!

Thanks Randy!!!

Todd