First time 911 buyer, dumb questions, part 4

Well, I should say owner (WHOHOO).

Found myself a very nice 82 SC, 91K miles, it has an oil leak that the dealer is fixing, a problem with the frequency valve which the dealer and I need to argue about, and a few problems the mechanic found that I have to deal with. Mechanicly, the engine is strong, the paint is in great shape for a 19 year old car (few rock chips, 1 small door ding). With the exception of sun damage to the dash, the interior is excellent.

Problems:

The heater blower in the engine compartment makes an intermittent loud screech. Mechanic said easy to replace, $200ish for a new blower.

The car has the automatic heater controls, which do not work. Mechanic said that without taking the box apart to determine what the problem is, it is hard to say what is wrong. Could be several hundred dollars.
If I pull the "Emergency heat lever" (which the owners manual says never to do) I do get warm air. Is there a common problem with these units, that I can check for before committing to exploratory surgery? Also, if you are never supposed to use the emergency heat lever, why is it there?

The tranny is balky shifting from first to second, but is fine downshifting to second from any other gear. There is no grinding, its just harder to shift than the other gears. It seems like the shift linkage is a little sloppy. I notice that the shifter seems to be spring centered, but only from the 5th and reverse side. What I am trying to ask is, every manual transmission car I have driven, the shifter was sprung to the center. If you let go in neutral, it would position itself between 3rd and 4th. You would have to overcome mild spring pressure to get into 1st/2nd or 5th/rev. My 911 (I sure do like the sound of that) seems to be this way, but only on one side. Is this normal, or is something missing in the shift linkage?

The sound insulation in the engine compartment is missing. Mechanic said he had to partially drop the engine to get to it, couple hundred dollars. Is it possible to do this without dropping the engine? The parts look to be pretty cheap.

Inop frequency valve. Mechanic said that if it was the valve, it sucks because it is on the front of the engine, partially drop the engine to get to it, few hundred dollars. He also said, that problems with the frequency valve are usually the relay, which is under the drivers seat. I looked in the owners manual, and can't find any mention of relays under the drivers seat. Is there a way to test the relay?

I need to get a shop manual for the car. I looked at the Haynes book at Pep Boys, and wasn't very impressed. Anyone know a source for the Bentley manual for 911SC's? I already looked at the Pelican Parts books, and didn't see it.

I am sure there are a couple things I am forgetting, but I appreciate any guidance I can get on my to-do list.

Thanks,

Tom Aiken
Fremont, CA
82 911 SC Sunroof Coupe

Bently just released its repair manuel to cover the SC models. I've seen it on e-bay at $88.00 but have not yet seen it at Barnes and Noble or Boarders. I expect the retail cost will be around $110.00.

Change the tranny lube to sweepco after flushing it with a cheaper lube. Everyone seems to agree sweepco in the tranny is the next best thing to a new tranny . . . possibly even better.
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Paul
78SC Targa

You can replace the sound insulation yourself. I did mine by removing the the air box and dropping the engine slightly. The part was approx. 65.00 and it took about 4 hours total to install.

Good luck, Todd

Your tranny problems are pretty normal. As far as centering goes, you are correct, most manual transmissions spring to center. The 915 is not a normal transmission.

It is only sprung for reverse and 5th gear. the 1st and 3rd columns are free-ranging.

If you're wondering why 1st to second shifts are balky, it's likely synchros that are worn. It could also be shift linkage in need of adjustment - an easy procedure - or you might need some transmission fluid. I recommend Swepco 90, sold here at Pelican. That should be one of the things you do right off anyway.

Get the seller to take care of as much as you can! And welcome to the addiction. Also - get some pics, and post them to the 911 Gallery - link below.

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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2
1987 Escort 5-speed 1.9
The 911 Gallery

[This message has been edited by old_skul (edited 12-28-2000).]

I feel your joy. After more than a year of ownership it thrills me DAILY to drive this car. I believe the SC cars got better toward '82 - '83 (of course I do) and I believe you got one of the most incredible motoring bargains out there. Pick up the new Excellence. Article on SC maintenance. It says one of the best values is a GOOD SC (not a neglected one) and you'll still spend $2k to $2.5k in restoration stuff, but you have one of the best daily drivers in the world. No kidding.

Anyway, yeah, heater motors are $200. Mine works but makes intermittent noise. It is unplugged but I can't tell the difference. I get plenty of heat without it. Frankly, I'd get rid of that automatic heater thing. The conversion to standard must be easy and cheap. But then I'm like that - manual is better than automatic for almost everything. Whatever happened to manual chokes?

The Haynes manual sucks, but buy it anyway. it's a rule, you hafta have one. Factory manuals are quite spendy unless you go microfiche, and then they're quite reasonable. Bentley is best overall, but I don't have one yet.

If you've got tools that collectively weigh more than fifty pounds, then hear this: The car will not be truly yours until you have removed its engine. If you're like me, this will be the transition from intimidation to ownership. And it's one of the easiest engine pulls you can do. And that's when you replace the frequency valve, sound pad, intake runner sleeves (yours are puffy I bet) and clutch disk (if necessary).

Welcome. Really, I feel your joy. Sounds like you did real well. What color?



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'83 SC

Thanks for the input. The car is black, with gold BBS wheels. I am still not too sure about the wheels. When I was younger, I thought gold BBS's looked great on a 911, now I think they look a little pimp-ish. I wonder how they would look painted black. Hmmmm.

This is the only photo I have so far, lifted from the dealers web page:



I bought the Feb Excellence last night, and picked up the Haynes today. I figure it is better than nothing, and even if the Bentley is the holy grail of manuals, the more sources of information the better. It is hard to go wrong for $15.

I did some research on the automatic heater control box in the forums, and with a better idea of what to look for, did some troubleshooting. With the ignition on, but engine off I can hear it the servo moving in the control box, and it kicks the blower on in the engine compartment. Regardless of the setting, I do not hear any blowers in front. I looked at the flapper boxes with a mirror, with the thermostat knob at 0 and max, and neither appeared to move. With the emergency heat lever pulled up, the drivers side appeared unchanged, but the passenger side closed about halfway. It looks like I have cabling problems. Unfortunately it appears that to get to inside the heater control box, I have to remove a seat, maybe two.

As to the blower, the more I drive the car, the less noise it makes. I think I will live with it for now.

This weekend I will take a peek at the shift linkage, and see if the bushings are OK. I read the Pelican Technical Article on shifting improvements, and it seems fairly straightforward. It will be good recon, as a factory short shift kit may be in my future.

pbs911, what do you mean by flushing the tranny with a cheaper lube? Do you mean change it to something cheap, and drive it a while, then change again to Sweepco?

Other stuff it needs:
Tool kit, air pump for spare, rear shocks are original, (front struts are almost new), Carerra tensioners, air box pop-off valve. Brake fluid is also original, and should be replaced. I also would like to replace the 85 MPH speedo with a 150, and a few dash lights are out.

All this aside, I am pretty damn happy.

Tom

Tom,

Congratulations! You are going to enjoy that car for years to come (even if you didn't buy mine ;-).

Maybe I'll see you on the 880 one of these days (off commute hours in the car pool lane at 100mph or so)!

Enjoy!
Ross

Your car looks great!! I just bought an '85 carrera w/ gold bbs wheels and I feel the same way as you. Have you looked into painting them? How much ? Will it wear ? etc? I've been looking at used fuchs ..still a bit pricey.($1200 -1900) for 4. Good luck

Originally posted by emcon5:
Thanks for the input. The car is black, with gold BBS wheels. I am still not too sure about the wheels. When I was younger, I thought gold BBS's looked great on a 911, now I think they look a little pimp-ish. I wonder how they would look painted black. Hmmmm.

This is the only photo I have so far, lifted from the dealers web page:



I bought the Feb Excellence last night, and picked up the Haynes today. I figure it is better than nothing, and even if the Bentley is the holy grail of manuals, the more sources of information the better. It is hard to go wrong for $15.

I did some research on the automatic heater control box in the forums, and with a better idea of what to look for, did some troubleshooting. With the ignition on, but engine off I can hear it the servo moving in the control box, and it kicks the blower on in the engine compartment. Regardless of the setting, I do not hear any blowers in front. I looked at the flapper boxes with a mirror, with the thermostat knob at 0 and max, and neither appeared to move. With the emergency heat lever pulled up, the drivers side appeared unchanged, but the passenger side closed about halfway. It looks like I have cabling problems. Unfortunately it appears that to get to inside the heater control box, I have to remove a seat, maybe two.

As to the blower, the more I drive the car, the less noise it makes. I think I will live with it for now.

This weekend I will take a peek at the shift linkage, and see if the bushings are OK. I read the Pelican Technical Article on shifting improvements, and it seems fairly straightforward. It will be good recon, as a factory short shift kit may be in my future.

pbs911, what do you mean by flushing the tranny with a cheaper lube? Do you mean change it to something cheap, and drive it a while, then change again to Sweepco?

Other stuff it needs:
Tool kit, air pump for spare, rear shocks are original, (front struts are almost new), Carerra tensioners, air box pop-off valve. Brake fluid is also original, and should be replaced. I also would like to replace the 85 MPH speedo with a 150, and a few dash lights are out.

All this aside, I am pretty damn happy.

Tom

Emergency heat control.

You can seperate the emergency heat control from the automatic control by removing a small screw that connects the two arms together. I've been running that way for about nine years, without any problems. As long as your cables and flapper boxes are good you'll get good heat and defrost. The aux heater blower in the back doesn't really add that much, so if you live in a warmer climate than here in Minnesota, you could probably just live with disconnecting the blower motor.

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Bill Krause
'79 911SC Euro

I read recently in Exellence that you can lubricate the heater motor by drilling a hole through the cover of the heater box where it covers the hub of the motor and then lubricate the motor through that hole. As for your cable problem. It's probably the flapper boxes. They rust in position over time. Good Luck Bobby

emcon5, exactly! Unless the PO took the effort to frequantly change the gear oil, there may be some small metal shavings of grime in the gear box. By draining the gear oil, and filling it with cheap gear oil you can "rinse" out the gear box by running driving the car for about a hundred miles and draining the cheap stuff before filling it with the sweepco. Be sure to clean off the magnetic drain plug each time. I have used my SC for a daily driver since day one, two years ago and have had almost no problems. I had more problems with my "reliable" camry. Good Luck and enjoy.
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Paul
78SC Targa

The "drill" fix mentioned in excellence applies to the front blower motor, I believe. For the rear blower motor, the front bushing is likely worn. It might still be a good idea to take it apart and grease this bushing. Replacement bushings are not available, but you can ream it out a press in a standard bushing. Someone recently told of a type of standard (cylindrical) bushing that give less trouble, less wear, less dryness. but I still would agree with my friend Bill that this motor is not very useful even when it runs great.

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'83 SC

Tom,
Aounds like you may have one of the more commom problems with auto heat controls. Good news is that it is extremely easy to fix...

If you flip up the rubber handbrake cover, you can see [with some contortions] the cable actuating lever - it is mounted on the handbrake pivot and has a ball fitting facing the pass seat side - and the servo control rod - it is a 5mm dia rod 118mm long with a black plastic rod end at each end that fits over the a matching ball. Is the rod connected to the lever? If it is not, chances are the rod end is busted. The rod end breaks when the actuating force becomes too high due to siezed cables.

Instead of removing the passenger seat/s, you can perform the entire diagnosis and surgery by removing the four hex bolts the hold the heater controller console to the floor.

First step is to unstick and lubricate the cables, and the flapper valves at each heat exchanger. Need to get to the point where the cable actuating lever can be moved through its travel by hand.

Next step is to test the servo. Its easy, and it sounds like yours is probably OK because you say you can hear the servo driving. Look down into the controller box [a flashlight helps] and find the control rod. With ignition on, turn the temp controller to defrost [full clockwise]. The servo should drive the rod to its fully forward position. Turn the temp controller to off [full counterclock]. The servo should drive the rod to its fully rearward position. If not, you have a servo/controller bug.

If the servo tests OK, the final step is to get the servo rod connected back to the actuating lever. If your rod end has failed:

1. Order a new Servo Control Rod P# 911 424 701 02 - around $24. Instead of replacing the old arm, you can simply replace the rod end [much easier].

2. If you are REALLY cold and want an interim fix before the new rod arrives.... you can uncrew the failed rod end [IMPORTANT: count each half turn as you unscrew it, write the number down, and use the same number of half turns when replacing the rod end]. Repair the busted rod end with heat shrink tubing [Radio Shack] Shrink two layers onto the end of the rod end as far down as possible without blocking the ball socket. Did this with mine and it has been perfect for two months so far.
Happy heating,
Tony Kelly 85 Carrera coupe
[another first time owner with a bad case of the bug]

The servo arm and control rod on my auto heater control was disconnected when I purchased my '85 Carrere, therefore, no heat. I removed the passenger seat, then accessed the control box thru the side door cover. Turns out the plastic ball socket that screws onto the control arm was broken. Fixed it by wrapping a short length of 10ga copper wire between the control arm and the servo lever. Works great...The heater will now blast you right out of the car... why spend anything at all (especially for another plastic part) if you can fix it for nothing?
regards,
jlex.

Guys,

I did my first 'cheap flush' in 1978, after entering an autocross and encountering a rather 'graunchy' 1-2 shift all throughout the event! I found rather dirty gear oil at my first change, with Castrol Hypoy gear oil, and thankfully, no brass 'chunks' from the dog teeth. Another change two weeks later ... and the 'graunchy' shift was eliminated within 200 miles, and hasn't returned!

I switched to Swepco 201 SAE 90 gear oil in 1984 thanks to Bruce Anderson's newsletter at Garretson Enterprises, and have been faithful user ever since!!!

But, more significant than the brand of gear oil is regular changes ... in my factory service manual the recommended change interval was every 6000 miles, and I have followed that recommendation for 22.5 years, and recommend annual changes, EVEN with Swepco!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

The servo rod end breaks for a reason - the cables become so badly gummed that the force required to move the lever breaks the rod end. If you go with a hard fix [like wire locking] then the rod end can't let go when forces get too high, and the servo motor and/or its driver transistors will burn. Expensive!

I prefer the heatshrink fix because it retains the 'weak link' aspect designed into the rod end.
Tony Kelly
'85 Carrera Coupe [heated]

I fixed the heater.

I pulled the seats, and removed the auto heat controler. Nothing better to understand how something works than to take it apart. What I did not realize before is that the whole purpose of the whole assembly is to pull the heater lever up. I thought it had its own way of closing the flapper boxes, and the "Emergency heat lever" as a backup. Now I see that it is connected to the servo, the warning in the owners manual makes sense. It would be hard to pull, and if you forced it, you would pop off or break one end of the control rod.

The control rod was connected at the heater lever, but not at the servo arm. When I would pull up on the lever, the loose end of the arm would bump into something inside the control box, and limit its travel. With the control box removed, the heater level moves about twice as much as with it on. The lever moves smoothly its whole travel, so the cables aren't binding. I had my wife move the lever up and down while I eyeballed the flapper boxes and they both close completely.
I reassembled the whole thing, connected both ends of the control rod, and it seems to function as advertised.

I also took a peek at the shift linkage bushings, and they seem fine. I will try and change the tranny fluid this weekend.

Thanks for the help everyone.

Tom

The servo rod end breaks for a reason - the cables become so badly gummed that the force required to move the lever breaks the rod end. If you go with a hard fix [like wire locking] then the rod end can't let go when forces get too high, and the servo motor and/or its driver transistors will burn. Expensive!

I prefer the heatshrink fix because it retains the 'weak link' aspect designed into the rod end.
Tony Kelly
'85 Carrera Coupe [heated]

Larry,

There is a set of 16" Fuchs on the classified list for $650.