Why would my starter do this???

[artisticent]

Its got to be a wiring issue. Its mentioned here that the wiring not making great contact might be a problem.
I have also determined that while trying to start the car, instead of the starter motor turning over the headlight will vitually dim out, so its really draining the battery while drawing.
Thanks
Nathan

[artisticent]

Just a note. I noticed in the install I have the large black 12v and the red 12v on the bolt of the starter but only one yellow wire attached to the spade terminal. It is not a tight fit but its snug. Its got to be the wiring so where do I start checking??
Thanks
Nathan

[ischmitz]

Please repeat after meF A hot engine is harder to turn over (better compression) and a hot starter has less torque!!!! Sometimes, pressing the accelerator all the way to WOT will help turn over the engine since it take part of the load away - you have to let go once the engine catches. Try it.

The fact that your lights dimm tells you that you have good ohmic contact from the starter all the way to the battery. Your battery's internal resistance seems a little bit on the high side (read: your battery might be on its way out) - this is why the lights dimm. The yellow wire just energizes the solenoid and doesn't have to deliver a lot of current. So this is not the issue.

A high-torque starter that can convert electric energy with more efficiency into work would fix your problem.

[charleskieffner]

hi torque starter.........NUMERO UNO #1!!!!! just did it! happy happy joy joy p-car!

[cab83_750]

Originally posted by artisticent
Its got to be a wiring issue. Its mentioned here that the wiring not making great contact might be a problem.
I have also determined that while trying to start the car, instead of the starter motor turning over the headlight will vitually dim out, so its really draining the battery while drawing.
Thanks
Nathan

Hmmm.......you are probably right.


BTW, on my SC and before the installation of the new starter, mine also had just 1 yellow wire connected. There are supposed to be 2 but on mine, 1 was not connected. Do a search from the archives and I know that some articles exist.

[thomschoon]

Originally posted by cab83_750
This was discussed many many times.

Anyway, this was actually my first Porsche issue. All I had to do was replace the ground strap, replace the factory starter with a High-Torque starter, and it never recurred again...........ever!

Good luck!

+1 I tried all the other stuff and a new hi-torque solved the real problem, the other stuff just barely helped but not enough.

[ischmitz]

The second yellow wire powers the cold-start injector while cranking on some model years. It is not present on all SC's.

[cab83_750]

Originally posted by ischmitz
The second yellow wire powers the cold-start injector while cranking on some model years. It is not present on all SC's.

Ingo,

Thanks for the clarification. Initially, I thought this was my issue.




Nathan,

DO NOT buy the relay. I tried that also. It fixed my issue for 2 weeks. This is a band-aid and I repeat, do not buy it.

[930LDR]

I just had a similar problem emerge in my 930 (atleast I think it is similar). I noticed today that twice when I went to start the car that the first time I turned the ignition that the starter didn't fire up. As a matter of instinct I gave it a quick flip of the wrist and the second try seemed to do the trick. Then this evening I ran out for a quick cup of coffee. Fired up in the garage but when I got back in after grabbing my coffee, nothing. Starter wouldn't even begin to crank. Unfortunately this time a second try with the key did nothing. Ended up trying for 15 minutes (giving it a little time to 'rest' in between attempts) until it finally kicked over.

I am going to take the car to the shop tomorrow and give it a once over. Are the connections to the starter (those that others have suggested should be cleaned) readily accessible? Anyone provide any pointers on where to look?

Thanks!

[artisticent]

Ahhhhh, That is my problem for sure. I have not even tried to do anything further. It was this weekend's mission. Yes the wires are very accesable. I raised the car on to jackstands, removed the rear pass wheel and laid under the car. With a shop light you can easily see the black wire and the red wire going to the + terminal and the yellow(maybe 2) to the spade terminal above that. Lets compare notes as we discover things,
Thanks
Nathan

[Rich Lambert]

Ground straps. I had this same problem on a '73 911T and an '89 Carrera. The '73 was just old and '89. I think, lived next to salt water in California...it had nasty corrosion.

At the battery, remove the negative ground strap and clean the connections on the battery and the body. Do the same with the ground strap between the transmission and the chassis. The transmission strap goes from the transmission, routes over the cross member, and connects to the body. Make sure the straps are in good condition and you've got clean bare metal mating surfaces. The engine and transmission mounts are rubber so the only good ground is through the ground straps.

Good luck.

[artisticent]

Ok, so I lifted my car and removed the ground strap from the tranny to the body, once removed I checked the car and it started. Wierd, so then I cleaned it all up and put the strap back in. Then I did the same for the battery ground. The car started so I drove it around but when I got home, it started again and then nothing. Same thing. When the car has been driven or its hot, it wont kick. When the car cools it seems to work.
Nathan

[EarlyPorsche]

Could one attach a ground strap to the engine and then the body somewhere?

[ischmitz]

that fact that the car started without the ground strap tells you that you have some shot bushing in the throttle linkage or one of your motor mounts might be toast. Not that I would want to run that much current like that. It's a good way to screw things up. I'd leave it in place since it is not your problem.

If you don't want to break down and get a new starter or the high-torque version you could alway carry a bottle of liquod nitrogen with you. That would allow you to get the engine and the starter back to stone-cold after you have driven it. But there might be more complicated solutions out there if you keep looking hard enough

[artisticent]

I just find it hard to believe that after 2 starters and I have the exact same problem. Wierd
Nathan

[thomschoon]

Have you tired the "bang on the starter" method, if it is hot and wont start, smack the solenoid with a wrench and see if it starts, which is when we get back to the buy a new hi-torque starter and not have anymore problems.

[artisticent]

that doesnt seem to make a difference either. Im gonna check the wires today.
Thans
Nathan

[rnln]

Do you know where to find the main relay on an 87 911? And how to check it?
Thanks.

Originally posted by teenerted1
i would guess either solinoid or ground.

just had a simular issue this weekend in my teener. usually a fuel pump issue not the starter. but the exact thing you describe happend to me. was the main relay, for me. pulled it off and reconected and was fine. no more issues this week. not sure if 911 are the same but you might check your relays?

[jester911]

artisticent, did you get this problem resolved? I have started having a similar issue on my car recently. I have not had a chance to get under the car yet but this weekend it is my mission.
I even put a new starter on it last fall.

[eddiehotrod]

I've been through this recently, so I feel your pain. Intermittent starting problems are the worst - you never know when they're going to happen and when it does it's always embarrassing. There's lots of good advice on this board about chasing down starting problems, but if I had to give a couple of tips they would be:
1. When you finally get that awkward top cap nut off from the starter, get a long 10mm allen key, cut off the L-shaped bit and put the long shaft of it into the nut. Then weld it there. You now have a 5inch long stud that holds your starter at the top, which is easy to reach with a 10mm socket when you next need to take your starter out. Turns a horrible job into an easy one. This is made even easier if you have lightweight starter (mine is a Brise unit, not much bigger than a coke can).
2. Do the easy stuff first. Clean all your contacts, especially the 14 pin connector on the left hand side of the engine compartment that holds the legendary yellow wire. Also ground strap and neg battery lead that bolts to the body down in the trunk. I spent a lot of time and money installing new lightweight starter, Odyssey PC680 battery, extra grounds straps etc with no joy. Then I cleaned up the 14 pin connector and all my problems were solved.