My electric windows work without the key in the ignition

[crosby50]

Just doesn't seem right. It's a 1989 3.2 Cab.

[Por_sha911]

They should work when you shut the car off only until a door is opened.

[Super_Dave_D]

Originally posted by Por_sha911
They should work when you shut the car off only until a door is opened.

And if they continue to work after the door is open then the door plungers are the likely suspects. I had the same issue and didnt notice it until my window switch failed in the up position - killing my battery.

[rnln]

This is exactly what I was asking yesterday.
Any electrical guru. Question on door switch wire(s).

[Mysterytrain]

Or the relay contacts are fused together.

[crosby50]

It must be the door plungers since my interior light does not operate when I open the doors (yes the bulb works). I suspected that the antiquated cell phone and radar detector that I pulled have something to do with some of these electrical problems.

I wonder if this led to the demise of my battery this winter when I let the car sit for only three weeks.

[MattAlpha]

MysteryTrain,

What do you mean about the relay contacts being fused together? Do you mean inside of the relay housing or relay to socket?

-Matt

[914efi]

I had this problem, didn't know why the batt would die over a few days. Good idea to fix, and very easy.

[Mysterytrain]

First off, your interior lights should operate when the door is opened. The door switch is providing a ground for that circuit. If they are not operating and the bulbs are good that would indicate that the switches are not functioning. The door switch also provides a ground for what I'm calling a convenience relay. If the switches aren't turning on the lights then they are not turning on the convenience relay.
I stumbled upon this relay/harness while gathering parts to convert my car from manual windows to power.
I've doctored a power window schematic to show how this harness and relay interact with the basic circuit.


The power window relay on the left gets power on pin 86 only when the ignition switch is in the 'on/run' position.

The convenience relay on the right is hot at all times but the solenoid only operates when the doors are opened and the door switch provides a path to ground and thus connects power from pin 30 to pin 87.
I'm really not sure what years used this harness. Bentley doesn't make mention of it, but rather shows a more advanced relay that appears to do electronically what the pair of relays that I've shown do.
So again, I'm not sure if your car has this set up or something more advanced.
In the circuit above if the door switch is not working then the convenience relay will not operate, nor will your interior lights.
On the other hand if the contacts between pins 30 and 87 are fused together on either of the relays then the power windows will always operate. You might want to just swap on the relays.

[JeffreyNMemphis]

I have the same issue, windows and sunroof work all the time regardless of key in/out position or door open/closed. The radio only works with ignition on. Sometimes I would like to turn off the engine and listen to the rest of a news broadcast or song. I don't think its good to have the key turned to driving position without the engine running.

Thanks for the scematic. I hope I can figure it out now.

[MattAlpha]

Very nice explaination. Now to trouble shoot this problem.

Thanks,
Matt

[Ron.G]

Are your interior lights in the "on when door is open" position?
You can turn them on and off by rocking the light itself.

VW technology.

[rick-l]

Originally posted by rnln
This is exactly what I was asking yesterday.
Any electrical guru. Question on door switch wire(s).

In your 87 this is what is inside the window controller.

Window Controller Schematic Thread

And your windows should work when the key is on OR the door is open.

[rouxroux]

The funny thing about this is we own 2 '86 Carreras. When we bought the white one, it was a 60,000 mile 1-owner car and the windows operated ANYTIME. I asked the original owner about it when I inspected the car, and she said it had done that since day 1. Now I'm confused...(have never looked at the schematic). Why don't I get a battery drain?

[crosby50]

What about the red one?

[Mysterytrain]

Previously posted by me in Feb.07:
The part number for the harness I have been refering to is 911-612-147-01
It looks like a special order item and the price is just $395 dollars..yep!
It is listed in the 84-86 section of the PET but I have never seen it in a wiring diagram.

[rouxroux]

Originally posted by crosby50
What about the red one?

The red one works like everyone else has stated: until the door is opened. Now the white one has the "central locking" button down by the AC controls, I don't know if that has anything to do with it (the windows)or not. The red one has the "nifty" push button cassette tape storage slots instead.

[Quicksilver]

Mine has the central locking bit and the windows work until the doors are opened.

Now the idea of hooking up the radio so it works until the door is opened really appeals to me. Have to think about that.

[crosby50]

while we're on the subject of the central locking button . . . . does anyone know why i get a faint beeping sound when my doors are locked and the car is running (like when I'm driving!)?

[rick-l]

Originally posted by rouxroux
The red one works like everyone else has stated: until the door is opened. .

Originally posted by Quicksilver
Mine has the central locking bit and the windows work until the doors are opened.

I would like someone to look at the schematic posted above or the window controller schematic and tell me how this is possible.

Should the word UNTIL be replaced with WHEN?