Fuchs Replicas?

[vance]

From what I've seen Fuchs Replicas sell for considerably less than originals. What are the disadvantages of the replicas?

[ben parrish]

You are going to get a lot of replies about lack of strength, heavier weight, "cheap" appearance, etc., etc.. As long as you are happy with the look and understand the strength issues, I say go for it. The true answer is that they are just as good as any other cast wheel.
good luck, Ben

[IROC]

They break.

They're not nearly as strong as the originals. Strictly for street use only and even then, I'd be wary.

Mike

[pantera]

Has anybody actually saw "with their own eyes" one of these replica wheels self destruct at the track or street?

Dan

[Wil Ferch]

Originally posted by ben parrish
The true answer is that they are just as good as any other cast wheel.
good luck, Ben

....Not true ! .....and a dangerous assumption. We're overlooking "details".

The original Fuchs are forged. Forging "squeezes" the molten or semi-soft hot metal in to a more dense package and makes for a stronger component. Casting does not do this.

The nuance? .......

Cast wheels are good and strong ( but HEAVY) ...because the spokes /rims ( whatever) has to be THICKER to make up for the lost strenth that the forging process provides. The Fuchs replicas are CAST and ARE NOT thicker ( to compensate) for the casting manufacturing process. OTHER DESIGN CAST WHEELS are OK because they are of their own design...not "copying" a Fuchs..and they can be ( and ARE) thicker where required to gain the required stength.


....it's all in the DETAILS ........

- Wil

[Dan in Pasadena]

They're cast, they're heavy and any real Porsche guy can tell in an instant they're knock offs. Buy real ones and get Jason, Harvey or Al Reed to finish them. You'll be much happier long term.

[vance]

Probably the best reason for the originals.

They're cast, they're heavy and any real Porsche guy can tell in an instant they're knock offs.

Thank you for your opinions.

[RickM]

There are plenty of treads posted here. My attempt at summarizing:

- Non of the replicas appear to be forged

- The original wheel design is centered around the properties offered by the forging process and a very specific alloy

- A cast Fuchs replica may be safe but is only as good as the particular manufacture who (re)designs/produces it. Made in China? No thanks.

- As mentioned a Fuchs style cast wheel must be beefed up to make up for strength...this adds weight.

- A DIN, ISO or TUV approved wheel would be desired

Great thread on the subect (includes a detailed description of the manufacturing process):

Replica Fuchs

This was posted as a replica......

[pantera]

Rick, judging from the picture, it looks like that wheel took some serious side impact in the bead area first to break out the center spokes. Do you guys think an original Fuchs would simply bend or fold over?

Dan

[DARISC]

And this is why a forged wheel is pricey (casting is simply pumping molten alloy into a mold at low pressure = low density, low strength and brittleness).

A forged wheel will bend, not fracture like a stale cookie (no pun intended, but aren't the "cookies" a cast wheel?). Got this great old pic off this site some time back. Makes me appreciate my Fuchs even more.

[Wil Ferch]

An original Fuchs will more likely bend...but DO keep in mind that some of these wheels are getting on to be 30-40 years old..and they CAN ( and DO) fatigue with similar catastrophic results.

Shorter answer is that forging ( as a process) will likely result in bending wheras a cast failure will usually "rip" quickly along a weak/fault line..

The picture of the failed Fuch replica does not necessarily indicate impact failure...could have been high-G load plus fatigue. Important is the point that it is more likely when the thickness is not increased on a wheel design that was thinner/forged in the first place.

- Wil

[RickM]

Originally posted by DARISC
And this is why a forged wheel is pricey (casting is simply pumping molten alloy into a mold at low pressure = low density, low strength and brittleness).

Not all casting processes are as you describe. Casting can be quite sufficient for wheels designed to be cast.

BTW, Fuch also designs and produces cast wheels.

[Wil Ferch]

Low pressure ( applied) casting techniques help avoid "holes" or voids and tend to "pack" the material better than regular casting techiques.

True enough...you CAN ge the required strength with casting, but the design and cross-section need to be beefier and that usually adds weight, as discussed.

- Wil

[keez]

What about the original cookie cutter wheels? Are they cast or forged and are they more prone to failure than a replica Fuch?

[Wil Ferch]

keez:

If you read between the lines.....the cast Cookie cutters are NOT trying to imitate the design of a forged Fuchs...so THIS design...like so many other cast designs...should be OK. Don't forget, they are getting old too !

More or less prone to failure than a replica Fuchs ??? I wouldn't bet my skin on a "mission critical" part on a fake Fuchs, especially if the fake wasn't at least altered to compensate for the thinner forging used on the original.

- Wil

[randywebb]

If you just have to save $$, then save it on the engine or interior or body repairs -- something that won't kill you.

The tires, wheels, and brakes + suspension are the most critical part of any car.

There is more than a little irony in driving a high-preformance sports/racing machine with low quality wheels on it. Isn't that too close to what we castigate the owners of Japanese cars with giant mufflers and neon underlights for??

I'm surprised Fuchs doesn't sue the fake makers for infringement...

[Netspeed]

Originally posted by pantera
Rick, judging from the picture, it looks like that wheel took some serious side impact in the bead area first to break out the center spokes. Do you guys think an original Fuchs would simply bend or fold over?

Dan

Remember also that when the wheel breaks, it's going to start taking out a lot of suspension and brake components. Most of that damage was probably from after the wheel broke.

[keez]

Originally posted by Wil Ferch
keez:

If you read between the lines.....the cast Cookie cutters are NOT trying to imitate the design of a forged Fuchs...so THIS design...like so many other cast designs...should be OK. Don't forget, they are getting old too !

More or less prone to failure than a replica Fuchs ??? I wouldn't bet my skin on a "mission critical" part on a fake Fuchs, especially if the fake wasn't at least altered to compensate for the thinner forging used on the original.

- Wil

Wil...that's a good point. Some of these original wheels have been floating around for quite a number of years, some used in extreme stress situations. Anything will weaken and/or fail after a certain point of time. If that wasn't the case alot of these high priced parts that we're buying wouldn't be high priced anymore.
On another note, I'm going to look into a set of minilites, order the correct backspacing/offset that will assist in getting the best sized tire under the 911. Any opinions to the minilite wheel?

[derkpitt]

Anyone know where to get a forged engine case?

I hear the cast ones can brake.

[dvkk]

Originally posted by pantera
Has anybody actually saw "with their own eyes" one of these replica wheels self destruct at the track or street?

Last year at our local vintage races I saw an early 911 with 15x7 fake Fuchs on the rear. The multiple large cracks were clearly visible from 6' away. I informed the owner's wife (owner not around). Later when he was out, I cringed at every lap. Nobody died that day, but I'm sure the guy will continue vying for the Darwin award.
I wouldn't use fake Fuchs on my VW.