Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils

[sbmackie]

OK, so if I'm running a quality oil with enough ZDDP, can I do the following (temps don't exceed 250 ever with good pressure; typical summertime temp is 240 on a 3.0 in an SC): 5 track days a year or so, total time on track 80-100 minutes, 8-10 AX's, 4000 miles total, to and from events and pleasure?

One oil change a year is my hearts desire.

Thanks
Scott

[sbmackie]

Spoke with Bruce Anderson, got input from Mr. Navarro the oil guy and Steve Weiner at Rennsport. All concur, I need to change in the middle of the season.

So, that's what I'll do.

sbm

[bkreigsr]

or....... - you could spend the $27.00 and have Blackstone/any lab do an analysis when you change oil. Then you wouldn't have to be guessing, or relying on others to tell you that your oil is, or is not, ready for changing. Every engine sees a different set of circumstances through the oil life cycle in terms of heat, airborne particulates ingested, fuel quality, rpms spent in the upper/lower extremes, etc, etc.
Bill K

[nize]

Originally Posted by bkreigsr

or....... - you could spend the $27.00 and have Blackstone/any lab do an analysis when you change oil. Then you wouldn't have to be guessing, or relying on others to tell you that your oil is, or is not, ready for changing. Every engine sees a different set of circumstances through the oil life cycle in terms of heat, airborne particulates ingested, fuel quality, rpms spent in the upper/lower extremes, etc, etc.
Bill K

+1

it's amusing how many people are concerned about their oil, but not concerned enough to get laboratory tests to verify.

[sbmackie]

Thanks for all the thoughtful, patient input. I was ignorant of oil analysis. I will get it done this oil change.

I've done it on my air cooled airplanes. Guess I should have been smart enough to put 2 and 3 together. I'm glad I was able to be a source of amusement for the more learned.

sbm

[Flieger]

How does a virgin oil analysis for Brad Penn motorcycle ("racing") oil compare to the normal Brad Penn car ("racing") oil for Sinc, Phosphorus and all the other good stuff?

Are there fewer detergents or is it friction modified?

Can anyone comment on if it does a better job than the traditional Brad Penn?

Thanks.

[donstevens]

Originally Posted by sbmackie

Thanks for all the thoughtful, patient input. I was ignorant of oil analysis. I will get it done this oil change.

I've done it on my air cooled airplanes. Guess I should have been smart enough to put 2 and 3 together. I'm glad I was able to be a source of amusement for the more learned.

sbm

You should be ashamed - Tsk Tsk .

I'm just kidding about shame. We are all bimbos every now and then.

Before I read your reply I was thinking the same as bkreigsr. Once per year changes may be very realistic for you. Oil Analysis will tell you.

Don

[dshepp806]

You've got to use a lab if you want to "know".. Blackstone (way back) gave me questionable (in)consistencies so I started to run samples both directions (2 labs).......there was a long thread on this (way back), showing virgin samples (same bottle) sent to several labs X2, with subsequent discussions..

Amazing different lab results. Just an FYI.......Charlie knows what I speak of.....

[tcar]

80 SC, stock, 125k.

It looks like M1 15W-50 (auto, not motorcycle) has enough Phosporous and Zinc.

I'm not going to switch brands, it's had M1 in it for over 10 years.

I have been putting a couple bottles of ZDDPlus in at each oil change. Maybe I don't need to do that now.

Is that correct?

Thanks.

[PatrickB]

Originally Posted by tcar

80 SC, stock, 125k.

It looks like M1 15W-50 (auto, not motorcycle) has enough Phosporous and Zinc.

I'm not going to switch brands, it's had M1 in it for over 10 years.

I have been putting a couple bottles of ZDDPlus in at each oil change. Maybe I don't need to do that now.

Is that correct?

Thanks.

No, that's not correct, unless M1 has recently upped their levels of ZDDP? If you're going to continue running M1 Automotive type oil, keep adding the additive.
If you are going with synthetic and no additive, Motorcycle Oils are your safest bet. I ran with M1 Motorcycle oil for awhile, but it was becoming quite difficult for me to find... I ended up switching to Redline Motorcycle oils, and they have a full range of weights too. Royal Purple, and Amsoil also have Motorcycle oils that will work just as well... For conventional/semi-syn. Brad Penn Oils seem to be the best choice! I know it's painful to read this thread from page one, but might be worth it to come to the same conclusion many have... For what it's worth, smoke on start up, as well as oil consumption decreased significantly with the use of Redline synthetic Motorcycle 20w60 in my 177k mile 3.2. Unfortunately, no motor oil could have protected it from a missed shift at Willow Springs 6 months ago...

[Forza]

Recently put in Brad Penn 20W/50 in the 930/16 of my late '83 SC, as well as Kendall NS-MP 80W-90 hypoid gear oil in the 915/63, and am done thinking about it.

[tcar]

Originally Posted by PatrickB

No, that's not correct, unless M1 has recently upped their levels of ZDDP?

On pages 59-60 of this thread, someone said that they HAD upped the Ph and Z in M1 15W-40. Now has 1300/1200 PPM. Wondering if that's true.

I do 'spirited drives' and will probably do a DE at the new High Plains Raceway, but other than that, not much hard driving

I have some ZDDPlus, any problem with adding it anyway?

And, actually, I have read pretty much the whole thread since it started.

Thanks.

[RWebb]

rather than just tossing in a bunch of ZDDP on my own, I prefer to have teams of professional chemists and engineers create a balanced, synergistic additive package for me.

[MichaelN]

According to Mobil specs dated 4/7/09, M1 15W-50 has the following levels of zinc and phosphorus:
Phosphorus - 1200 PPM
Zinc - 1300 PPM

"HT/HS applications. Racing and Flat tappet applications"

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by tcar

On pages 59-60 of this thread, someone said that they HAD upped the Ph and Z in M1 15W-40. Now has 1300/1200 PPM. Wondering if that's true.

I do 'spirited drives' and will probably do a DE at the new High Plains Raceway, but other than that, not much hard driving

I have some ZDDPlus, any problem with adding it anyway?

And, actually, I have read pretty much the whole thread since it started.

Thanks.

IMHO, I do not trust the informational materials put out by Mobil anymore. They have changed their story many times since this thread has started and who knows when they will pull the switcheroo again.

I just went to the Mobil 1 site and could not find a 15W-40 but they do list a 15W-50.

They say (http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAUSENPVLMOMobil1_15W-50.asp):

"Product Description

Mobil 1 15W-50 is the most advanced performance synthetic engine oil designed to provide the cleaning power, wear protection and performance reserve to keep engines running smooth and clean.

Features and Benefits

Mobil 1 15W-50 is formulated with SuperSyn, an extra high-viscosity synthetic fluid, plus extra anti-wear additive to provide extra protection for severe service applications. Mobil 1 15W-50 is recommended for high performance vehicles including turbocharged and supercharged engines where a thicker oil film is desired. Mobil 1 15W-50 is also recommended for older valve train designs that may benefit from a higher level of anti-wear normally not required for newer generation vehicles. Mobil 1 15W-50 will also provide better anti-wear protection for higher valve spring tensions in certain racing engines.

...

Typical Properties

...

SAE Grade 15W-50
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40º C 131.2
cSt @ 100º C 18.1
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 154
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.21
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC ASTM D 4683 4.50
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -39
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 235
Density @15º C kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.87"

Strangely, no mention of Zinc or Phosphrus analysis.
But you money, your car, your choice.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by MichaelN

According to Mobil specs dated 4/7/09, M1 15W-50 has the following levels of zinc and phosphorus:
Phosphorus - 1200 PPM
Zinc - 1300 PPM

"HT/HS applications. Racing and Flat tappet applications"

Care to provide a link to this claim? As noted above, I went to the Mobil 1 Web site and went othe 15W-50 page and this data was not found. It should be easy, if not, beware.

[alniki]

There was a link in this thread leading to the document dated 4/7/09 stating the 15W50 as API SM with phosphorus 1200ppm, zinc 1300ppm. Now, that's a contradictory spec as I was taught, after reading this thread from teh very beginning, that an SM oil cannot have that high levels of ZDDP.

[brads911sc]

The SM rules do NOT apply to 15w50, 20w50 oils. Many of the ones that are ok are actually SM.

Originally Posted by alniki

There was a link in this thread leading to the document dated 4/7/09 stating the 15W50 as API SM with phosphorus 1200ppm, zinc 1300ppm. Now, that's a contradictory spec as I was taught, after reading this thread from teh very beginning, that an SM oil cannot have that high levels of ZDDP.

[Hoghead]

I see ZDDP listed on the Material Safety data Sheet for M-1 "Turbo Diesel Pickup Oil" as less than 2.5%

[brads911sc]

I think its PPM thats important not the %.

Originally Posted by Hoghead

I see ZDDP listed on the Material Safety data Sheet for M-1 "Turbo Diesel Pickup Oil" as less than 2.5%