RoW 1981 911sc rebuild or replace engine?

[NoEardGoat]

I need to decide what direction to go in with my motor?

Car Background:
1981 911sc RoW model with 129k miles on the clock. It is very original and I know the engine # matches, but suspect that the trans. # doesn't match because according to the record it was replaced with a used tranny in 1998. The tranny is from an 1981-83 sc, but doubt a RoW model since it was replaced in the US. The interior is very good and only needs carpet, and front seat covers, new steering wheel and some fixes done to the door pockets to be immaculate. The paint isn't bad, but could use a new coat, the old paint is chipping off in some areas. The body is good with minor surface rust @ the window corners.

The Stock Engine:
I have taken the engine almost entirely apart, rods still on crank & bearing shells in case, It's status can be seen here: My new (old) 1981 911sc Project car
It basically had many broken exhaust studs, 1 broken piston ring land, damage to 1 cylinder head from gasket mashing into it (hopefully can be fixed by machinist), no carrera tensioners, I took the heads apart and they look ok but I should have a valve job done and new guides put in, cams have some bad spots need repair/regrind, some of the rod bushing show wear but the rods look ok, probably needs need fuel injectors.
I have already purchased a set of used Mahle pistons and cylinders w/ new rings for $630 that are US 9.3 CR. see post here: Used P&C #'s
I am calculating costs and it looks to be around $8-10k to rebuild my 3.0L and keep the car original.

The Option Engine:
I could get a 3.6l w/ low miles from a 993 or 964 for $6-8k and install it for another $3-4k. I know performance wise this is hard to beat.

I am wondering if I would lose value in the car by going with the 3.6l install? I am thinking this might be more important the car being RoW and worth more than a US? I would need to sell the 3.0l to help cover the costs of the new transplant either as a whole or in parts. So the car would lose its matching RoW block. It would be much faster to drop in a used 3.6l. I will do most the work except for required machining etc. I would also hate it if I didn't rebuild the engine very well and put all the $$ and time into it. I am mechanically inclined, but not a experienced Porsche mechanic either. Started my library though.

I know of a 3.6l available right now for $7k with oil cooler and lines, brain and all the accessories with the engine that I want. It has 45k orig. miles, burns no oil, sound great and is in a running 1992 C2 with a messed up tranny that is being parted out. I have to make a decision by tomorrow on this motor so any quick advice is much appreciated. Should I try and grab the brakes as well? How much are they worth? Sorry for the length of the post.

[NoEardGoat]

Please help! I need to make a decision on the 3.6l today........

[amschnellsten]

3.6 buy it

[Uber-fanatic]

I just made the bigger-engine-upgrade/forfeit-matching-numbers choice, albeit that it wasn't much of a choice for me; I had blown 2.7 in a stock '74 911 with a trans that also needed rebuilding. My car offered little additional value if it remained original specs/original serial #'s, so my two cents are actually only worth about 1.25 cents, but it's 1.25 cents more than you had earlier this morning! Again, if your trans has already been swapped, call it a decision that was made for you by a previous owner, and go get that 3.6l!

[jhynesrockmtn]

I have an 83SC ROW with a 3.2 transplant. I haven't seen anything indicating an ROW car is special or more collectible than a 911 built for export to the US.

The real issue is what do you want to do with the car? If it's a driver and/or track car I'd do whatever you think is best in terms of HP/$ spent. If your goal is trailer queen then it's probably a different answer.

I would think the car is worth more $'s to most buyers if the 3.6 swap is well done and the engine is in good shape.

[NoEardGoat]

I thought that the RoW 911 were worth more than the US models? My friend has a 75' 911 and said that the RoW would double the value of his car. Maybe less imported in 75' than 81'?

If this is the case, that it isn't worth a whole lot with correct #'s, than the 3.6l transplant might actually save me some money because I can sell the 3.0l engine whole or in parts.

[911Mac]

SCs are very plentiful and among the more resonably priced 911s. If you rebuild the 3.0 you still have an SC. Still a nice car, but not particularly special or collectable.
I would expect your car would be more valuable with the 3.6 upgrade as long as you do it right. If you sell, you'd probably need to wait for the right buyer though.
Check the Pelican classifieds and eBay.

Here's a site that may help too, combines lots of 911 for sale ads. Just remember these are asking prices.

http://jaxed.com/cgi-bin/ms.cgi?veh=porsche%20911

-Mac

[NoEardGoat]

I checked out the trans Id. It is a 915/63 which I believe indicates a us or cdn model, year 1982. Not the stock RoW. Got this form this post: transmission ID

Leaning toward the 3.6l........Time, headache, and even maybe money savings (by selling the 3.0 (parts)) by going this way.

[jhynesrockmtn]

A real 75 Euro Carrera is a whole different beast than a Euro SC.

[ChrisBennet]

Originally Posted by NoEardGoat

I thought that the RoW 911 were worth more than the US models? My friend has a 75' 911 and said that the RoW would double the value of his car. Maybe less imported in 75' than 81'?

If this is the case, that it isn't worth a whole lot with correct #'s, than the 3.6l transplant might actually save me some money because I can sell the 3.0l engine whole or in parts.

ROW are generally worth less than US versions (in the US). Bruce Anderson used to say 20% I think. The reasons given include: less options (no sunroof, no AC, cloth seats instead of leather, etc), parts can be harder to find, and the shops federalizing them generally did a ****ty job and if used in Europe, the ice melt they used on the roads was pretty aggressive at melting cars too. The few Euro 911/930's I've worked on confirmed the "****ty federalization" impression.

That is what the market has said. You can argue all day that orange is a better car color but most people are going to black, silver, etc. Less demand = lower value.

Personally, I like a lot of the Euro qualities (no sunroof, more powerful motors sometimes). With cars this old it really comes down to condition.

I've never heard anyone regret going with a 3.6 transplant...

-Chris

[Staylo]

Given that it is an SC (in Cali), and in it's current condition, RoW isn't working in your favor. If you plan to keep it, go 3.6 and don't look back. Again, being in California you have some homework to do on getting it smog legal, but won't regret it when completed.

[NoEardGoat]

Originally Posted by Staylo

Given that it is an SC (in Cali), and in it's current condition, RoW isn't working in your favor. If you plan to keep it, go 3.6 and don't look back. Again, being in California you have some homework to do on getting it smog legal, but won't regret it when completed.

I have read up on the smog issues and it seems that it can be done with the proper cat(s), O2 sensor(s), and I have heard of even having to install a check engine light, but for the 1992 I don't think every 993 had the check engine light. I think the 1992 964 3.6l may be a little easier to smog than a 1996+ Varioram 993 3.6l. I know a few mechanic that should be able to recommend a smog shop.

[Staylo]

[QUOTE=NoEardGoat;3518029] I think the 1992 964 3.6l may be a little easier to smog than a 1996+ Varioram 993 3.6l. QUOTE]

Yep, OBD1 models will be a little easier and give you more custom tuning options.

[astark]

My experience (FWIW) is that SC's are hard to sell at this time, even if in good/excellent condition. Granted my experiences are on the East Coast. Matching numbers have never entered the discussion with possible buyers. Most just want deflated price. Even at ridiculously low prices it's hard to sell. My suggestion...do what makes you happy, feel good about your decision and drive the car till the doors fall off!

Spent yesterday wrenching on my SC and remembered how much fun these cars are (driving and wrenching). My car is still for sale, but I'll drive it like I stole it till the right guy (gal) recognizes the value of a well maintained properly sorted SC.

Good Luck,
Alan

[NoEardGoat]

Well I pulled the trigger! I will be picking up a 1992 964 3.6l motor next weekend. I will get the oil cooler and lines as well as a list of stuff:

Ok here is the list of parts I would like included w/ the engine:
Throttle cable
Engine wiring harness
All Vacuum hoses
Smog equipment
Alternator (I think is behind the fan stuck to engine)
Flywheel and flywheel sensor for computer
Exhaust, muffler, cat w/ O2 sensor and wiring
Power steering w/ lines
Distributors
Coils
A/C and lines
Engine tin
Air filter hosing, etc.
Fuel Pump, filters and lines (if not too much trouble)
Starter
DME computer and wiring harness to engine and car
Motor mounts
Oil reservoir
Front oil cooler, lines, fan w/ wiring harness
Cruise control module (maybe part of trans?)

Other Desired items:
Front & Rear calipers and rotors
Steering wheel? gray?
oil temp gauge if it has #'s instead of lines

Anything I am missing that I can get off the car for my 911sc?

[NoEardGoat]

I actually think that I need to see the engine ID # first. I want to make sure it has the good headgasket like the 1993 C2. I guess they changed mid year 1992. I got this from another post, but I believe if the case # is after 62M06836 then it has the head gasket. I am worried with such low miles that if it didn't have the good headgasket, then it probably hasn't been replaced because of the cars low miles. I guess Porsche backed off fixing recalls in 1991 because there were too many over diagnosed leaky engines. I guess the mechanics got a little greedy, but if the thing were designed right in the first place there would be no issue. If this is the case and the engine doesn't have the head gaskets, then I will have to pass on this one.
What do you think? I have heard $4-10k just to fix/update this head gasket issue. Not a route I want to take.