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-   Porsche 911 Technical Forum (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/)
-   -   Running Fog Lights only.... (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/382588-running-fog-lights-only.html)

MIK911 05-21-2008 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidrivers (Post 3956991)
Hey there.. KatoKato

I just performed this mod on my 84. Living in Canada too, I wanted daytime running lights that were able to be run without the headlights on.

I used the method Wil outlines in post#3. To clarify what is going on with the fuses. The grey wire he is referring to is not carring the load of the foglights, it is merely the trip for the relay that handles the load, so there is not as much concern about what fuse to use, as long as it is the powered under the right circumstances.

I wanted a fuse point that was powered when the ignition was on. I used fuse #1, furthest towards the back of the car in the block. It is the sunroof/power window fuse in my car. I have a cabriolet, so for me this was a fuse for my powerwindows. I moved the thick grey wire (fog light relay trip) from the bottom of the lowbeam circuit fuse to the bottom of the power window circuit fuse, and voila, fog lights that I can switch on and off when the car is running, without having to have any other lights on.

I also ran it for a while with the grey wire on the bottom of the parking light fuse so that the fogs came on with the running/parking lights, but in the end I preferred the fogs only as DRLs.

Hope this helps.
David
Now *that's* the answer i've been waiting for.
Thanks!!

PSportoVeloce 05-21-2008 10:33 PM
wait, i thought that the fogs could be run without the headlights on by default...what year did they switch to doing this? both the 964 and the speedster allow the use of foglights without the headlights. don't know about the 87 since it doesn't have any fogs.

davidrivers 05-21-2008 10:49 PM
On my car (and my understanding of how it came stock), the fog light switch was only active when lowbeams were on, but then turned off when highbeams were engaged. I believe it was(is) a law in some states that the fogs cannot be on by themselves or with high beams. But, since plenty of Canadian cars use below-the-bumper lights as daytime driving lights, I figured the fogs would work great for that.

Mike.. you're welcome! Technically, this is my first actual contribution to this board (small as it is) :-). Have lurked for a year and asked a few questions along the way. This community has been of immense help to me, so figured it was about time I gave a little back!

oregonmon 05-22-2008 09:55 AM
Why would this be made illegal?

Paul K 05-22-2008 12:17 PM
Ryan:

According to Oregon law, auxiliary and/or fog lights must be used like the high beam headlight system of your car. They must be dimmed or turned off within 500 feet of approaching an oncoming vehicle and 350 feet when following another vehicle. The color of auxiliary and/or fog lights is also regulated. Fog lights may be either white or amber (yellow). Rules prohibit other colors such as blue. The State just put out a memo about this, which noted that 'everyone does it' and 'manufacturers wire them to come on that way'. It also states that 'In normal visibility conditions, fog or auxiliary lights should be turned off.'

Personally, I find it annoying when people drive about in broad daylight in clear conditions with them on- as on some vehicles they are very bright. The safety concern is that these lights focus your attention right off the hood- not out there where you should be looking.

All that said, in some 911s you need all the light you can get- but I think the H4 upgrade is a safer alternative to fog lights, plus why give the cops another reason to pull you over?

Cheers,

Paul.

dshepp806 05-22-2008 02:48 PM
My 89 will provide fog lights with parking lights (or maybe selective position of the parklight switch?)

Best,

plymouthcolt 05-22-2008 05:06 PM
On my '88, if you pull out the headlight knob halfway, that turns on the orange lights, then you can turn on the fog lights.

MIK911 05-23-2008 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidrivers (Post 3956991)
Hey there.. KatoKato

I just performed this mod on my 84. Living in Canada too, I wanted daytime running lights that were able to be run without the headlights on.

I used the method Wil outlines in post#3. To clarify what is going on with the fuses. The grey wire he is referring to is not carring the load of the foglights, it is merely the trip for the relay that handles the load, so there is not as much concern about what fuse to use, as long as it is the powered under the right circumstances.

I wanted a fuse point that was powered when the ignition was on. I used fuse #1, furthest towards the back of the car in the block. It is the sunroof/power window fuse in my car. I have a cabriolet, so for me this was a fuse for my powerwindows. I moved the thick grey wire (fog light relay trip) from the bottom of the lowbeam circuit fuse to the bottom of the power window circuit fuse, and voila, fog lights that I can switch on and off when the car is running, without having to have any other lights on.

I also ran it for a while with the grey wire on the bottom of the parking light fuse so that the fogs came on with the running/parking lights, but in the end I preferred the fogs only as DRLs.

Hope this helps.
David
So I did mine today. Thanks for the info. Mine was a little different tho'. I did remove the gray wire from the 5th fuse back (as mentioned in original post). But unlike David's, when I connected it to bottom of last fuse (closest to firewall, marked Sunroof), the fogs lit anytime the switch was out (on), even when no key was in ignition. So I moved it to power mirror fuse, and now it works as I intended, ie fogs switchable on when ignition on, independent of parking or headlights. Yess!

KatoKato 05-24-2008 04:43 AM
Thanks David!

When I get the time I will perform this little operation.

Cheers,
Kato

dorschman 05-24-2008 05:00 AM
My 87 will run the fog lights only if the running lights are on and the fog light switch is activated.

KatoKato 05-24-2008 08:26 AM
Located the grey wire - which also has a much thicker yellow wire attached as well - on the bottom of fuse#17, dipped beam.

When you ran the grey wire back to fuse#1 did you have to solder on a piece of wire to get there or did you "pull out" the grey wire to get the length required?


Thanks,
Kato

Canada Kev 05-24-2008 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul K (Post 3958053)
According to Oregon law, auxiliary and/or fog lights must be used like the high beam headlight system of your car. They must be dimmed or turned off within 500 feet of approaching an oncoming vehicle and 350 feet when following another vehicle. The color of auxiliary and/or fog lights is also regulated. Fog lights may be either white or amber (yellow). Rules prohibit other colors such as blue. The State just put out a memo about this, which noted that 'everyone does it' and 'manufacturers wire them to come on that way'. It also states that 'In normal visibility conditions, fog or auxiliary lights should be turned off.'
This is pretty much the same as anywhere I have ever lived in Canada. That being said, fogs are used by many vehicles as daytime running lights which have been mandatory here since the late 80's. I presume the fogs being off in normal visibility is not a requirement. When you turn your headlights on, the fogs automatically turn off. Unless you have the switch on.

Fogs must be turned off anytime you would dim your high beams otherwise you risk getting a "failure to dim lights" ticket. Ask me how I know this.

-kevin

Paul K 05-24-2008 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by syzygy (Post 3961748)
I presume the fogs being off in normal visibility is not a requirement. -kevin
'In normal visibility conditions, fog or auxiliary lights should be turned off.' That's right from the state- their words, not mine. It's only really a problem here with big jacked-up trucks, especially when I'm in the 911 and my head is at the same height their fog lights are!

Cheers,

Paul.

84_Carrera 05-24-2008 10:01 AM
Did my '84 this afternoon, 5 minutes total. I DID have a wire in the 2nd from front fuse (which looks REALLY tiny for a fuse, according to the back of the fuse box cover, that's the rear license plate light). Anyway, works as explained in the beginning, just enough wire to make this work without effort on mine, and I'll have no issues running my "driving lights". If I do, I'll get out of the car, point to how low they are to the ground & ask if the officer's worried about be blinding the Geico Gekko or something...

KatoKato 05-24-2008 11:42 AM
Just completed the transformation ...

I tried to get at more of the grey wire by pulling it through from behind the fuse panel. Not much extra length came out so I had to do a patch to make it to fuse#1.

The only problem I had is that red/blue wire at fuse#1 takes up almost all of the space available there. I had to flatten the grey wire and force the red/blue wire over top of it. I didn't get it in all of the way but enough so the screw makes full contact holding both firmly in place. I hope this won't be a problem.

After driving around and turning the car off the lights go out automatically ... sweet! The only thing I did notice is when I turn the ignition to the start position (without starting), engage the fogs, and then take the key out, they stay on! I'm assuming there is some sort of built in delay in order to open/close the windows or something like that ?

Canada Kev 05-25-2008 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul K (Post 3961793)
'In normal visibility conditions, fog or auxiliary lights should be turned off.' That's right from the state- their words, not mine. It's only really a problem here with big jacked-up trucks, especially when I'm in the 911 and my head is at the same height their fog lights are!

Cheers,

Paul.
Sorry, perhaps I wasn't very clear. I was referring to the Canadian situation. Here, daytime running lights are a requirement and in some instances the fog lights are used to meet this requisite. My reference to fogs not being an issue in good conditions applies to this country and is not directed at other jurisdictions.

-kevin

davidrivers 05-25-2008 09:24 PM
Hey Kato..

I too had to splice in an extention to the grey fog wire to get it to reach fuse #1. Regarding the fogs staying on, I saw another thread on here regarding folks able to use their power windows after the ignition was off, but before they opened the door.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=344722&highlight=power+windows+ig nition

Seems might it might be normal operating in some years. In my car (84) the fogs and power windows shut off when ignition turns off.

MIK911 05-25-2008 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatoKato (Post 3961966)
Just completed the transformation ...

After driving around and turning the car off the lights go out automatically ... sweet! The only thing I did notice is when I turn the ignition to the start position (without starting), engage the fogs, and then take the key out, they stay on! I'm assuming there is some sort of built in delay in order to open/close the windows or something like that ?

Yeah, see my post above. Same 'sort of' problem. When I connected the thick gray wire to fuse #1, fog lights lit on even with no key in ignition.

So do your fog lights turn off after a delay (engine off, key out), or when the door is opened? Weird.
If problems persist with fogs staying on, use the power mirror fuse like I did---now mine works as planned.

mike

dshepp806 05-26-2008 06:44 PM
Coming up to an intersection today, I noticed a car contemplating darting out from behind the stop sign. I gave 'em a flash of the headlights...damned if they STILL didn't pull out in front of me! NOW, I may wire the fogs into the flash circuit for some additional lumens when issuing a warning....... ! (don't think it will help the idiots...)

...back to our regularly scheduled programming.

KatoKato: did you get it figured out? (this funky delay...?)

Best,

KatoKato 05-30-2008 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIK911 (Post 3964183)
Yeah, see my post above. Same 'sort of' problem. When I connected the thick gray wire to fuse #1, fog lights lit on even with no key in ignition.

So do your fog lights turn off after a delay (engine off, key out), or when the door is opened? Weird.
If problems persist with fogs staying on, use the power mirror fuse like I did---now mine works as planned.

mike

Haven't thoroughly checked this yet. I will get to it.


I've also been thinking about running the windows off of fuse #2 (My A/C is removed and I have my seats set to the lowest position) so I can properly connect the grey wire to fuse #1. As I stated previously it's jammed in there and I don't like it like that.


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