Is polybronze the way to go?

[jonbot]

Wow, thanks for all the info guys, this is really an important subject to me, and I appreciate all your input, I'm reading through everything you guys say.

To me, the suspension defines the whole attitude and feeling of the car, and I just don't want to make any decisions I might regret. I wasn't aware that Elephant racing provided a service to replace the rubber bushings, that's pretty sweet. Right now, I'm kind of leaning towards this service, but I'm still trying to weigh out my options.

One concern of mine with the polybronze is the 1 year/5k mile lubrication interval. It doesn't sound terrible right now, but I wonder if it would became an inconvenience for a daily driver.

Another thought I have is what happens down the road if the bearing races need to be replaced, how difficult is it to remove them after they have been epoxied in place for years? I'm just trying to think about it from all angles.

[don911]

For your application, I would stick with the original design. I think Smart Racing also replaces the rubber bushings.

I have the elephant polybronze set up and like them so far but my car is set up for more track than street.

For a long term, maintenance free solution, I don't think you can do better than the original design.

[KFC911]

Don makes an excellent point. Mine's not a daily driver, so it's just one of the annual maintenance items...another "to do". Most of us are in there doing something else anyways, so it's no big deal to hit 'em occasionally. If one doesn't DIY though, and really puts some miles on each year, that's certainly a valid consideration in spite of the benefits. I don't ever relish the idea of replacing a pb bearing, but the same is true for rubber. One benefit not mentioned about pb bearings imo, is how easy they facilitate reindexing the rear torsion bars. When I put everything back together (euro height), I got her close enough first try and then adjusted, but if one did need to change the rear height by reindexing, it'd be much easier imo. My setup is similar to Clubsport's: 22/29 t-bars, Bilstein HD/Sports, polybronze bearings, monoballs, strut brace, lightened a bit, and some other stuff...fantastic for the streets I travel, and I wouldn't change a thing.

ps: Maybe it's changed, but I thought the relube interval was more like 10K miles (I do it sooner). I hadn't thought about the epoxy aspect...I've had mine several years, and did 'em the old way (shimmed and pressed on) with no problems whatsoever.

[Dixie]

For a car that sees mostly street use I'd go with Netrix or factory bushings. I've used the Netrix bushings before. They are quite, don't need constant greasing, are inexpensive, and hold up great.

[safe]

Originally Posted by jonbot

One concern of mine with the polybronze is the 1 year/5k mile lubrication interval. It doesn't sound terrible right now, but I wonder if it would became an inconvenience for a daily driver.

The grease maintenance should not be over magnified, its not that big of a deal, it takes just 30 minutes.
It just needs to be done.

Its not for the concourse car since the bushings (and the parts around it) tends to get a little greasy over time.

[Rot 911]

I went with polybronze on the front and neatrix on the back on my 911 daily driver. Suspension now just feels like a new stock suspension. Not harsh at all.

[burgermeister]

This worked for me (so far) ... it is cheap and quick, if nothing else.

Front LCA Rubber Bushing

This assumes our bushings are still elastic and not brittle. Chuck Moreland can also rebush your A-arms with original-style bushings if yours are toast and you want to stay stock.

If rubber is not to your liking and if you are riding on the torsion bars like I was, I can't imagine PB bushings making the ride any worse. You will loose some front ride rate going to PB bushings - not sure how much, but 10% might not be that far off. Next summer I might take mine apart again to measure it. Too damn cold now....

[87 clubsport]

this may also give you some idea revalve? for upgrade suspension

[RWebb]

[PolyBronze] "Suspension now just feels like a new stock suspension."

- according to Steve Weiner, who should be unbiased and has seen a LOT of setups, the PolyBronze will feel BETTER than a new stock suspension. The only downside appears to be the need for a bit of grease once in a while.
-- From a reply to a question by me in the last few days -- should be easy to find if you search.

[ianc]

One concern of mine with the polybronze is the 1 year/5k mile lubrication interval.

It's really not a big deal. Every time you change the oil, just grease the bushings. Of course, you will need to buy a grease gun if you don't have one, but such is life...

ianc

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by jonbot

One concern of mine with the polybronze is the 1 year/5k mile lubrication interval. It doesn't sound terrible right now, but I wonder if it would became an inconvenience for a daily driver.

This is not a big deal. Up to about the '80's, all cars had zerk fittings that needed the occasional pump of grease. You did the greasing when you changed the oil. 1-2 pumps per fittings and you were good to go.

I still have my grease gun.

[JohnnyT]

The previous owner had installed a full PolyBronze setup in my 87 Carrera, Cool, I thought untill I tried driving on Seattle streets! Not comfortable and noisey as hell! All kinds of rattles and bangs.
I replaced the whole setup with new factory rubber control arms, and bushings, front and rear it is like a new car now, literally.
In my opinion, not acceptable for street use, great for a track car!

John
1987 911 Carrera

[safe]

Originally Posted by JohnnyT

The previous owner had installed a full PolyBronze setup in my 87 Carrera, Cool, I thought untill I tried driving on Seattle streets! Not comfortable and noisey as hell! All kinds of rattles and bangs.
I replaced the whole setup with new factory rubber control arms, and bushings, front and rear it is like a new car now, literally.
In my opinion, not acceptable for street use, great for a track car!

John
1987 911 Carrera

Are you sure they was the PolyBronze? You must have had som other issues if thats the case.

[JohnnyT]

Absolutely sure, I saw them with my own eyes, and I know the mechanic who installed them.
This car is extremely well maintained!
You are not driving in Seattle!
JT

[safe]

Originally Posted by JohnnyT

Absolutely sure, I saw them with my own eyes, and I know the mechanic who installed them.
This car is extremely well maintained!
You are not driving in Seattle!
JT

No, not in Seattle, but the roads where I live are no ballroom floors.
They should not rattle and bang, not if properly installed, which is not as easy as one might think.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by JohnnyT

The previous owner had installed a full PolyBronze setup in my 87 Carrera, Cool, I thought untill I tried driving on Seattle streets! Not comfortable and noisey as hell! All kinds of rattles and bangs....I

Hmm...there's got to be more going on here imo. Seems to me that "comfort" is more related to the stiffness of the torsion bars, shocks, etc. than with the movement of the rubber bushings or pb bearings (more freedom of movement imo). My car is "firm", but certainly not uncomfortable, and as far as noise, not a single rattle or squeak regardless of the road conditions.

[dickster]

I have 22/31 bars and neatrix/polybronze. Mine is not a daily driver and is mainly used for sunny weekends. 1,500 miles max pa.

My ride is harsh for the road, not too much, but harsh nonetheless. Handling probably suffers on the road.

I do find greasing the polybronze a PITA! They should be done every 1,500 miles? So, definitely out for a daily driver (IMHO).

If I did it again? I would stay stock (unless I did lots of track work).

[safe]

Originally Posted by KC911

Hmm...there's got to be more going on here imo. Seems to me that "comfort" is more related to the stiffness of the torsion bars, shocks, etc. than with the movement of the rubber bushings or pb bearings (more freedom of movement imo). My car is "firm", but certainly not uncomfortable, and as far as noise, not a single rattle or squeak regardless of the road conditions.

Of all the things I have done to my suspension in term of degrading comfort I would grade them in this order:
1. Low profile tires
2. shocks (I run Bilstein Clubsport)
3. torsionbars
4. swaybars
(5. PB bushings.)

Number 1 and 2 had the biggest impact by a huge margin. PB I would say almost improved the comfort.

[Thrlls]

Originally Posted by HarryD

This is not a big deal. Up to about the '80's, all cars had zerk fittings that needed the occasional pump of grease. You did the greasing when you changed the oil. 1-2 pumps per fittings and you were good to go.

I still have my grease gun.

LOL!!!
I was thinking the same thing...how difficult can greasing the nipples be?
I remember having to grease like 5 nipples just for the front suspension.

Strange that the PB would be noisy since it moves on a bearing...unless it wasn't greased?

[burgermeister]

The A-arm rubber bushings isolates 2 of the 3 noise paths from the balljoint into the car body. Usually 25-50Hz and up. The PB bushings would not do this.

OEMs spend quite a bit of money, time and effort on bushings (there's even variable rate, directional, hydraulically damped ones) to isolate noise and tune the ride. I'm not knocking PB's, but there HAS to be some detrimental effect for noise when compared to a rubber bushing (one that's working correctly, not one that's bottomed out on the torsion bar). May be perfectly acceptable based on roads and owner preference. I bought a set myself, though they are still in the box....and I'm still on the fence about installing them sometime. For now, the rotated factory ones seem OK.