Neatrix vs. PolyBronze - ride quality

[rnln]

Thanks everyone.

And thanks KTL to clarity neatrix is rubber. After reading many posts and responses, I was confused on either Neatrix is rubber or eurethane. Another thing is when I look in PP catalog, I only found the rear. I can't find the front. Did you get the front from PP or some where else?

Thanks.

[KTL]

You are correct. Only the rear bushings are available in Neatrix rubber. The fronts are typically not sold because they are difficult to install.

Back in 2001 I had my A-arms reconditioned with rubber bushings from Smart Racing. It cost me ~$350? I chose that path instead of poly since there were many woes about the poly installs squeaking and binding. Plus PolyBronze was not yet invented.

[rnln]

umm... why Neatris don't make the front arghh. Have you heard of MFG? Is it rubber or plastic?

[911st]

Not an expert but the stock bushings are rubber and do not have a friction suface.

They give and twist as noted above. If they squeak somthing is wrong as I do not think they were intended as a friction surface.

Any grease used with Netrix bushing should be only to get them squesed into place.

Following this thought, ruber should have the lowest friction but will have high resistance like a spring or shock. They do however have give which is good for comfort but not for suspention control and feel.

A needle bearing type, if they are available, would have the leaset friction.

PB should have less friction than nylon style.

In a past car I went to the hard nylon style bushings. They are very economical. My car was intended for track anyway but with the light weight interior and reduced insulation, it was noisy and you felt everything. I had adjustable Koni's front and rear. Turning them down did not seem to help much.

I have not tryed the new PB bushings but I would have to think they would transfer vibrations and harshness just like the hard poly bushings. They are mostly metal so they should have the potental to transfer vibration just as much of not more that nylon bushings. They just would not squeak.

If you still have a full interior and noise insulation, you may not be to overwelmed with the harshness.

To repace the front factory bushings I belive you have to buy new front A arm$. The netrix is a financial viable solution for the outer rear bushing.

Don't forget the iner bushings in the rear arms. They can have a big effect on toe changes to.

I would think, bushings transfer vibration, shocks contribut to the felling of harshness. Springs can make a car feel stiff and controlable.

Thus, a car with stock torsion bars, hard bushings, and race or sport shocks could be less comfortable than a car with big torsion bars, good rubber bushings, and moderate shock valving.

My $.02

[rnln]

911st,
thanks for the education. So look like there is no hope on any economical bushing for the front... yet.

[911st]

That is my best understanding which is worth about $.02.

[Jim727]

Originally Posted by rnln

911st,
thanks for the education. So look like there is no hope on any economical bushing for the front... yet.

Where are you located? My car is at European Performance in Novato. They are putting Neatrix on both the front and rear - don't know the cost yet, but doubt it's excessive. Have been going there for years and the work is excellent.

Jim

[rnln]

Jim,
I have done some seerch and can't seem to find any front neatrix sold anywhere. Are you sure they will use Neatrix (rubber) on your front? If so, do you think they would let you know where to get it?
I am in SCal. Thanks Jim.

[safe]

Originally Posted by 911st

I have not tryed the new PB bushings but I would have to think they would transfer vibrations and harshness just like the hard poly bushings. They are mostly metal so they should have the potental to transfer vibration just as much of not more that nylon bushings. They just would not squeak.

You are right that they do not squeak, but they do NOT transfer much vibration and harshness.
I ride was smother and more comfortable than stock (old worn rubber).

Jim, if you do a search for the pelican "Aturboman", you will find a tread where he describes making a new stock rubber bushing for the DIY crowd. But I think that it has stalled due to the difficulty to assemble the a-arms without special tools.

[911st]

That is good to hear about the PB's. I have not tried them. The poly material must be soft enough to help. the poly also alows these to be fit with the production variations. I just wish they were not so much.

They are a great solution but I don't want to spend $$$ on bushings.

I think I saw there were Netrix for the iner rear control arm bush but It might just be factory rubber ones at a reasionable price.

I just picked up a 85 Carrera and am leaning toward the Netrix and rubber where I can with 22/29 bars. May try to stay with the softer HD shocks ft & rear but will probably go with Sports in the rear.

Keith in Sacramento

[KTL]

The bushings that were replaced on my front A-arms by Smart Racing are indeed rubber. Smart did an excellent job.

Keith,

The Neatrix rubber rear bushings are exactly what I installed on my car with the same torsion bar combo and Bilstein shocks you mentioned. If you want the ride to be compliant, do use HD all around. I think you'll find the same result I did- replacing old worn components with new ones will make the car ride tighter and actually improve the comfort factor. With tired bushings and worn shocks, my car would crash over bumps in the road. With new bushings, shocks, stiffer t-bars the ride & feel of the car improved greatly. Not too stiff and completely acceptable on the street.

[rfloz]

Originally Posted by rnln

911st,
thanks for the education. So look like there is no hope on any economical bushing for the front... yet.

Not sure I'd consider it "economical", but Elephant Racing sells rebuilt control arms that include new rubber bushings for $500.00/pair. See page 4 of their catalog - elephantracing.com.

[Jim727]

Originally Posted by rnln

Jim,
I have done some seerch and can't seem to find any front neatrix sold anywhere. Are you sure they will use Neatrix (rubber) on your front? If so, do you think they would let you know where to get it?
I am in SCal. Thanks Jim.

Was at the shop today. The bushings are from Weltmeister; the fronts are their "street" grade. I'm sure Pelican can source them. The kicker is that apparently they were a bugger to get on. If it were a diy job, I think I'd go for the Elephant replacement A-arms or wait for the new bushings aturboman has come up with. Can't give any feedback on ride yet, but I'm really looking forward to trying them out.

Jim

[rnln]

Thanks Jim