Neatrix vs. PolyBronze - ride quality

dd74 · 01-17-2008, 09:31 AM

If a car is equipped with PolyBronze bearings on the A-Arms, is it advisable to place PolyBronze as well in the springplate areas as opposed to, for example, Neatrix bushings? I ask because I wonder if the Polybronze and Neatrix yield different types of ride and handling.

Thanks.

Superman · 01-17-2008, 09:59 AM

Neatrix is going to flex more than polybronze, but I would not expect an effect that is similar to using different tire brands on different axles. Whatever you've got in the front, I would think you would be free to chose whatever for the back.

Strut bearings can make a fair difference in terms of noise and perhaps polybronze bushings might be a little noisier, but I question that. I wouldn't be surprised if the noise level of polybronze spring plate bushings is essentially the same as Neatrix. Really, the difference would mostly be in the degree to which the syspension is allowed to flex. Less with polybronze. In other words, I would expect the polybronze to deliver the most predictable and solid handling. Without much of a noise penalty.

Then there is the "stiction" thing, which I substantially dismiss.

ZOA NOM · ZOA NOM's Garage

I just took neatrix out of my race car, and replaced with Polybronze. I haven't had the chance to get it on the road yet, but the Neatrix setup was very squeaky. The PB seems to be a very solid fit, and I expect to see improvement. The irony is that I put Neatrix in my Daily Driver and haven't heard a peep.

Superman · 01-17-2008, 12:02 PM

Thanks, ZOANAS. I always enjoy watching your......posts.

dd, any time you install anything made of rubber, coat it with silicon grease.

jpnovak · 01-17-2008, 12:43 PM

Ride quality is improved due to easier suspension movement (lower friction). To me there was no more noticeable noise even with a stripped out track car on the street.

onboost · 01-17-2008, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman

Thanks, ZOANAS. I always enjoy watching your......posts.

Let's be frank... I always enjoy watching your Avatar!

jester911 · jester911's Garage

I happen to have the polybronze on order from ER as we speak. Looking forward to a little suspension upgrade/refresh over the next few weeks.

VaSteve · 01-17-2008, 01:02 PM

In october, I put Neatrix in my car and ER polybronze in the front. Ride is fine. It's a street car however.

Last weekend, tried to install neatrix into a friend's car. It was like hell on earth and we gave up. Couldn't put it in. (We suspect we may have had something else (counterfiets?) ) Car is still apart with the ER stuff on order.

I would say that neatrix is fine ... if you can install it!

dd74 · 01-17-2008, 02:05 PM

Thanks for the replies, guys.

My question really is if a car equipped with PolyBronze in the front (control arms) and Sport Shocks and Neatrix in the rear (spring plates) with Sport Shocks, will ride more firm with less rebound up front that in the rear?

Like Superman says, squeaking (or any other noise) shouldn't be an issue if liberal grease is used, so that's nothing with which I'm concerned.

Thanks again.

Superman · 01-17-2008, 02:15 PM

And again, I don't personally feel there would be a difference other than the additional tracking "trueness" with the polybronze. Neatrix bushings are going to do just about nothing to absorb shocks. Suspension travel would be the same for both. In my humble opinion. There is this talk about "stiction" and the theory is that a PB suspension moves more freely than a rubber one. My feeling is that when a suspension is holding up a 2500-lb car, and when that car hits a four-inch deep pothole, I wonder if the forces at work (we're talking about a momentary force of perhaps two or three tons) would move a PB suspension even one millimeter further than a rubber suspension. I don't believe it would.

ZOA NOM · ZOA NOM's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman

Thanks, ZOANAS. I always enjoy watching your......posts.

dd, any time you install anything made of rubber, coat it with silicon grease.

Good point, in fact, I remember spraying the Neatrix bushings on my Daily Driver with silicon spray during install. Maybe that's why they haven't made a peep. The PO that I bought the race car from had modified the Neatrix bushings with grooves and zert fittings in the covers, so maybe that's why they howled.

Superman · 01-17-2008, 03:15 PM

Some of the many important things I learned from Warren have involved the use of silicon grease. He maintained this stuff has many many important applications. I'm finding all his advice useful.

safe · safe's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by onboost

Let's be frank... I always enjoy watching your Avatar!

I think we deserve a full screen version of it!

rnln · 03-31-2008, 01:09 AM

I have read several thread people are talking about neatrix bushing on the rear but have not seen anyone talk about it on the front. Isn't it available for the front (a-arm) or it won't work well for the front?

70SWT · 03-31-2008, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by safe

I think we deserve a full screen version of it!

OK, I'll pick up the ball: where can we FIND it?

KTL · 06:26 AM

double post

KTL · 06:31 AM

I haven't had the opportunity to do a polybronze setup yet. But I have slugged it out with a Neatrix (rubber) set many times. And just so everybody's clear, the Neatrix refers to true rubber bushings. We're not talking about polygraphite or polyurethane or delrin plastic bushings here

At the front, I believe the biggest benefit in the polyB is the freedom of movement. The difference between the poly and the rubber is night and day. The polyB impersonate true bearings in that you can easily rotate a polyB-equipped suspension arm (as long as it's not connected to the shock absorber, torsion bar or sway bar). There is very little freedom of movement with the rubber bushings. The rubber bushings actually act like additional springs. The bushing housings are indexed on the A-arms such that they're in the best resting position for the car to be loaded on it's suspension. When you unload the suspension and try to move the A-arm (with no springs or shocks acting on it) the A-arm actually springs back. It does not move freely like a poly installation would.

Moving to the rear..... When the rear springplate is squished into the torsion tube and the outer bushing plate is installed, there's SUBSTANTIAL resistance to movement. The rubber bushings do not act like traditional bearings, which allow for sliding movement. The movement which occurs with Neatrix is twisting of rubber that requires a great amount of force to rotate the spring plate.

Anybody considering tracking their car for a number of years should strongly consider something other than OE rubber at the front. I had my OE bushes replaced with rubber and after 6 years, 15K miles, the loading of doing track days has caused the rubber to squish enough that one of my 22mm front torsion bars was starting to contact the front crossmember. The contact was very slight and only nicked the bar. Nonetheless, the front rubber being as thin as it is, is tested to it's limits to handle the heavy loading of stiffer torsion bars and R compound tires.

But Neatrix is good in the rear. After taking apart my rear suspension last week, the rubber is in good shape (only marginally deformed) and the superglue used to adhere the rubber to the spring plate tube did it's job. I'd recommend these in the rear for anyone who wants a no-maintenance, no-squeak rear install. Same goes for the front, just costs a little more. Neatrix/rubber is perfect for the street. No maintenance and good compliance to deal with impact harshness.

stevemfr · 03-31-2008, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSflared72E

OK, I'll pick up the ball: where can we FIND it?

My 8 yr old daughter glanced over my shoulder while I happened to have Zoanas avatar bouncing on the screen a couple of weeks back. At dinner she goes "Dad had this really funny picture of bouncing breasts on his computer earlier..."

"No, honey, I swear it was the Porsche board. PORSCHE. Really. It's just this guy's avatar. Really."

Elombard · 03-31-2008, 08:59 AM

Yah dont forget on the rear that the SP "twists" so there is alot of friction there anyway. Having the free movment in the rear is maybe not as important as in the front. That siad I had EB all around on my car and loved it. It was pretty stiff so I noticed no change, perhaps on a stock G50 cush wagon you would notice more noise ???

I really want to try the new rear Arms that chuck has that eliminate the spring plate. I bet that makes a nice improvment in rear axle reaction.

I wonder (have not looked at chucks site in detail) if removing the twisting from the spring plate changes the rear rate and you have to go to a stiffer rear TB?

Bobboloo · Bobboloo's Garage

I have Polybronze upfront and Wevo springplates in the rear. Not only was handling improved but NVH was reduced over stock rubber bushings. The result was a quieter smoother ride.