Who has experience with a borescope?

[Grady Clay]

Who has experience with a borescope?

I want to buy a borescope to use on 911 engines. It needs to easily fit down a 14 mm sparkplug hole (12 mm would be better) while the engine is in the car. It needs light and accessories to look ‘back’ at the valves and seats. It needs to articulate.

I would like to affix a video/still camera so I can record the images on my laptop. A picture is worth a thousand words.

I would like to stay under $500 for the scope system. A few hundred for the camera and capture.

I see this as the third important diagnostic tool for our engines (cranking compression and cylinder leak tests being the first two). This allows you to see the condition of the top of the piston and inside of the combustion chamber. Not only is the mechanical condition important but so are the combustion patterns.

You can also inspect the condition of the cylinder wall and the sealing surfaces of the valves and seats.

Here is a great deal of important information, gathered without disturbing the engine.

Best,
Grady

[berettafan]

not much help here but when i looked into it the prevailing wisdom was that boroscopes from the medical industry provided a much better image and were many thousands of dollars. they do seem to be getting a bit more common though which is encouraging!

[SCWDP911]

Wow, that is a tight budget for sure. I am really not sure what a good b-scope that articulates well enough for what you want would run. Maybe try ebay...

I can tell you all I buy and use at work (gas turbine industry) is Olympus. We do not have very many problems with them until one of our guys forgets to make sure the entire length of cable is out of the turbine compartment before slamming a door shut - yeah, DOH. I know the last setup I bought has very tight articulation, built in video/still capture and hard drive unit and a color LCD for viewing ran me $18k. Of course this was the cream of the crop Olympus, and considered what we need. You could get by with one that was just your basic scope, but you would need to try to find one that had a still camera lens adapter. Good luck!

[CurtEgerer]

Hey Grady - we're using a few different borescopes. The latest, and my favorite, is the inexpensive ($200) Rigid See Snake. Has a great digital monitor but no camera input! Unfortunately, it also has a 17mm head diameter. Why they don't build a digital camera into this thing is beyond me!

http://www.professionalequipment.com/ridgid-seesnake-micro-inspection-camera-25643/borescope/


The other is more expensive and the lightis not as good but it will work and is well under $500. It's the Provision PV2. It's purely optical Has a light that runs on 2 AA batteries and will work just fine. There is a camera coupler that works reasonably well with it.

http://www.professionalequipment.com/provision-pv2-series-36-in-518mm-diameter-borescope-pv2636/borescope/

[SCWDP911]

Grady, you had me curious about the cost of some of the other brands... I think this one here might be just what you are looking for as a whole package. He says it has the obedient cabel which means it will articulate, provided he has stated that correctly... cost isn;t too bad either...
Hope this helps...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NIKON-DIGITAL-CAMERA-BORESCOPE-KIT-AND-ADAPTER-SET_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43989QQihZ010QQitem Z200177322270QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[Grady Clay]

Here is a Harbor Freight example:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91565

$270.





The links above are getting closer. The DNR Tech Group (eBay) looks inreaging. Does anyone have 1st hand experience with it?

Best,
Grady

[SCWDP911]

Originally Posted by Grady Clay

Here is a Harbor Freight example:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91565

$270.





The links above are getting closer. The DNR Tech Group (eBay) looks inreaging. Does anyone have 1st hand experience with it?

Best,
Grady

Sorry I don't... but they are using a Nikon camera, so it sounds to me that maybe care was put into the planning of the package. I would email them and ensure that the tip has full 180 deg articulation, as not all of them do. One other thing I would verify with them is that the braided cable is no larger in diameter than the tip... this is usually not the case, but I have seen it on some cheaper setups before... You might also ask them what replacement bulbs it uses, if they include any extras with the package, and where the best (cheapest) place to get them. Ours are are close to $100 each if I remember correctly...

[Jascha]

Originally Posted by v8_ranch

Grady, you had me curious about the cost of some of the other brands... I think this one here might be just what you are looking for as a whole package. He says it has the obedient cabel which means it will articulate, provided he has stated that correctly... cost isn;t too bad either...
Hope this helps...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NIKON-DIGITAL-CAMERA-BORESCOPE-KIT-AND-ADAPTER-SET_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43989QQihZ010QQitem Z200177322270QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Grady, I also like this one (bang for the buck). I have used medical (endoscope) types but they are rather expensive and the camera / video adapters are often more costly than the unit described above…

In fact, I used both the rigid and flexible type to scope (via # 6 spark plug port) the engine (not removed) oil cooler...


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/321967-dangers-ingesting-dryer-sheet-through-engine-cooling-air-fan-911-carrera-3-a-post3415566.html#post3415566

[NY65912]

The Ridgid Seesnake DOES NOT fit into a 14mm spark plug hole.

I tried it last week on my SC.

Being in the plumbing business we have a few around for locating pipe in walls.

[David E. Clark]

Grady,

Without making a specific recommendation, here are some useful resources:

Borescopes-R-Us
Phone: 931-362-4009
Web: www.borescopesrus.com

EverestVIT/GEInspection Technologies
Phone: 973-448-0077
Web: www.everestvit.com, www.geinspectiontechnologies.com

Gradient Lens
Phone: 585-235-2620
www.gradientlens.com

Karl Storz
Phone: 310-410-5506
www.karlstorz.com

Lenox Instrument
Phone: 215-322-9990
www.lenoxinst.com

Machida Borescopes
Phone: 845-365-0600
Web: www.machidascope.com

Titan Tool Supply
Phone: 716-873-9907
www.titantoolsupply.com

Richard Wolf/JME Technologies:
Phone: 815-477-8800
www.jmetechnologies.com

Aqua Communications
Phone: 781-642-7088
www.snakeeye.com

Olympus Industrial America
866-629-2451
www.olympusindustrial.com

[CurtEgerer]

The Provision is sold under a few different names. It's probably your best bet for the money. The lighting is only adequate due to the small head diameter, incandescent bulb and small power source. The optics are OK, but if you want brighter light and better optics in something with a small diameter head you start getting into the $2000+ category.

I've got a rigid Hawkeye with GREAT optics but they're big $$.

http://www.gradientlens.com/bore_products-h_flexible.asp

This one might be worth a look. Basically, similar to the Provision but with an LED light. I haven't tried these. BTW: The prices from Professional Equipment are usually high and can be found cheaper with a Google search .....

http://www.professionalequipment.com/vision-optics-borescope-36in-6mm-v036-6w/borescope/

If you want to try a Provision before you buy, I can send you one. PM me.

[Grady Clay]

David,

WOW, that is quite the resource list. THANK YOU.

Curt, that is a very generous offer. After I get farther along I may take you up. Do you have a 911 head-with-valves off an engine? Can you put the scope through the sparkplug port and view the valve and seat sealing surfaces?

My old (low-tech) solution is a 911 instrument ‘peanut’ bulb soldered on some small speaker wire and a battery holder with nine rechargeable AA cells. I can use that for additional light. I can snake it past the open intake valve.


The eBay product is a combination of a standard Nikon CP 4500 video camera and accessories (USB cable, software, etc.) and the CML Innovate Technologies borescope. They add a few more accessories; tripod, carrying case, etc.


The borescope is from:

CML Innovative Technologies, Inc.
147 Central Ave.
Hackensack, NJ 07601
888-398-1522
http://www.provision100.com/products_b.html
http://www.provision100.com/pvelite_articulated.html

After some more research, I’ll give them a call.

I suspect I can use my Cannon digital camera’s viewfinder to position the scope and then simply snap an image. I have the cable and software to download the images. It even looks like the standard 37 mm camera adapter fits. No need for a video camera.

The overall resolution (10K pixels) is limited by the fiber optics 100x100. The probe diameter is only 6 mm so it should fit a 12 mm sparkplug hole.

The articulated version tip bends to 120º and the tip view is 25º off axis (50º total). That should be enough to inspect the valves and seats.

Best,
Grady

[CurtEgerer]

Grady, my car is in Florida right now and no spare engines laying around!

[john walker's workshop]

trouble is, you rarely find a burned valve and the seats all tend to look ok until you start to grind them. trying to get a flexible tip to see the whole seat, and under and round the valve, instead of only the part it's close to is about impossible. carbon buildup and washed piston crowns are about all you're going to find. maybe some cylinder scratches. i have a lighted medical procto-scope with excellent optics that moves the tip left and right about 120°. and it's difficult to get an idea where you're at in there and what you're looking at.

[CurtEgerer]

John's got a great point. Although we don't look in engines, we have the same problem. You get into something and say, wow this is cool. Wait a minute, what the hell am I looking at and which direction is up?! Not very helpful in many situations ....

This is what you need. A micro camera:

[RWebb]

Grady - if you have any friends or contacts at a medical school, research hospital, proctologists, or gastro-enterologists, or some dental surgeons... then they may have some used equpment (older generation stuff) lying around.

As noted above, old-gen medical stuff will be of very high quality.

[borescopeuser]

Go to www.Borescopesrus.com and look at the Video or if all you need is a Fiber Scope they have those too

they make real quality scopes

[911quest]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

trouble is, you rarely find a burned valve and the seats all tend to look ok until you start to grind them. trying to get a flexible tip to see the whole seat, and under and round the valve, instead of only the part it's close to is about impossible. carbon buildup and washed piston crowns are about all you're going to find. maybe some cylinder scratches. i have a lighted medical procto-scope with excellent optics that moves the tip left and right about 120°. and it's difficult to get an idea where you're at in there and what you're looking at.

I agree with John they are really only useful for checking for bent valves...

my .02 cents

[toolman]

I sell a unit called V-Scope. it comes in 4.3, 5.8, 6, and 10 mm sizes. They also have a mirror attachment to look "up". You can get white or UV blue lights and camera hook up is available also. The most expensive one is $400 and goes down to $280 at retail. No Pelican pays retail and I will not sell one if it is stepping on Waynes toes. Available lengths are 24 and 36 inches with flexable or stationary wand. 7400 pixel image.

[Zef]

Doing B-scope inspection is part of my job. I've done a lot on turbofan engine...some on piston engine (Lycoming and Cont. engines). That said...within your budget, it will be very difficult to get a flexible enough B-scope to allow you to go in by the spark plug to see the valve seats area. It take a very good flexible scope to do that.