Lifting Car Sequence

[SteveCarr]

Just thought I would chip-in. I use the engine as a lifting point with a high lift jack and wood as packing. Works fine for me and I have had no issues with leaking engine etc. I must admit I did have my reservations about doing this at first but to date all has been well.

Regards

Steve

[safe]

Originally Posted by Noel

Does anyone else life the front in the center using a 2x4 accross the beam in front of the fuel tank and behind the A/R condensor? I've been using this method for years. I lift the rear with the engine first, install jackstands under the torsion tubes and then the front. It's pretty low in the front but not with a low alum jack.

Yes, that's how I do it. But I have a piece of iron tubing that spreads the weight across the "beam".

[richde]

Okay, so where do you place the jackstands if you're going to be removing suspension parts? I need to pull my front A-arms and hopefully do the rear T-bar bushings.

Inside of the rear torsion bar mounts and under the "bar" in the front?

[Nine9six]

Originally Posted by rusnak

wow, if I had a pit in my garage floor I'd be like "why lift your 911 on 4 jackstands" too....

nice, reminds me of the pictures at the Porsche factory of the mechanics doing engine development work.

anyway I wanted to post the picture of 911 jack points. I'm not sure who originally posted it, but I stole it and now I'm giving it back.

I also put padding on my jackstands so that they don't leave indents in the car where they come into contact with the floor.

I wonder if using the crankcase as a jacking point causes the crank bearings to wear faster on one side by bending the cases slightly. After all, align boring removes like thousands of an inch right?
Won't jacking on the case potentially make the bores out of alignment at least that much?

It shouldn't. Line boring does bore to the next larger bearing size, or the cases have been welded and rebored to OEM size. In either situation, the cases are dowel pinned prior to boring, so that you can split the cases, and reassemble in the correct location with the pins.
Hope this makes sense...

[Nine9six]

Originally Posted by ZOANAS

I'll chime in for the DON'T EVER LIFT IT ONE SIDE AT A TIME crowd.

I lift mine from under the motor and place both stands under the rear t-bars, then I lift from one of the pads in front that are just behind the front wheels near the front edge of the doors. This lifts the whole front end so I can place the jackstands under the front t-bars.

This method maintains a triangle of safety at all times while lifting. The angle created between the torsion bar and the jackstand when you lift only one side scares the hell out of me.


edit: I am fully aware that many people lift their 911's one side at a time without issue. It just seems way too wobbly for me.

I lift as ZOANAS indicates.
I had a well known mobile Norcal East Bay mechanic (Tim Amon) do some work for me. He jacked my car one side at a time, and at such an extreme angle, it had me worried that the car would roll onto its side, but I kept my mouth shut. I also had worries becaues my car is a cab, and lacked the rigidity of a coupe; but I figured this guy has an excellent reputation, so he must know what he's doing. Long story short, the passenger door has never closed as it once did, due to this rookie mistake in the jacking of a cab.
The mistake was later verified by our own (Socal) wheel alignment specialist, Darin at West End Alignment.
So, cabs and targa's beware!

[Gunter]

Originally Posted by richde

Okay, so where do you place the jackstands if you're going to be removing suspension parts? I need to pull my front A-arms and hopefully do the rear T-bar bushings.

Inside of the rear torsion bar mounts and under the "bar" in the front?

I suggest that you do the front and rear seperately; in other words: Finish one end and then do the other.
Avoid placing your 911 on 4 jack stands; it's just not that stable.
I would use jacking plates (Or 7/8" key stock) in the square holes (rocker panels) to carry most of the weight and then place jack stands under the T-bar tubes for additional support.
That way, one pair of wheels would always stay on the ground.

Safety first!

[ZOA NOM]

Originally Posted by Gunter

I suggest that you do the front and rear seperately; in other words: Finish one end and then do the other.
Avoid placing your 911 on 4 jack stands; it's just not that stable.
I would use jacking plates (Or 7/8" key stock) in the square holes (rocker panels) to carry most of the weight and then place jack stands under the T-bar tubes for additional support.
That way, one pair of wheels would always stay on the ground.

Safety first!

I place mine on 4 jackstands all the time, with no issues. I normally use the t-bar location for the fronts, since I lift at the pads behind the front wheels. If I need to access the t-bars, I simply move the jack under the center of the front cross member (after I've already lifted the front as I usually do, so I can get the jack under) and move the jack stands to the pads behind the front wheels. Very stable.

[azasadny]

Another reminder to be careful jacking up your car!

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080423/NEWS01/80423094

[Ray B]

Originally Posted by Noel

Does anyone else life the front in the center using a 2x4 accross the beam in front of the fuel tank and behind the A/R condensor? I've been using this method for years. I lift the rear with the engine first, install jackstands under the torsion tubes and then the front. It's pretty low in the front but not with a low alum jack.

+1. Stable-no problems. It allows room to place your stands under the t-bar covers without any wierd (unsafe) angles.

[Zeke]

When doing front suspension work, you can place a 2 x 4 across the pan at the gas pedal. That's not a bad place for stands anyway. If your stands are as far forward as Dave's, and the rears are on the t-bar covers, you can actually raise the car's front by pushing real hard on the rear. Not balanced at all. Put a 5th stand under the bell housing if you must use the t-bar covers. Not much pressure needed or wanted there. Or, leave a jack pumped up to just rest on the housing.

Now that I have a heaver car, I don't tend to use the engine or trans as a lift point. I jack the car up on BOTH sides a little at a time. Floor jacks cost so little these days you ought to have a minimum of two. Right now I'm doing some work on a 914. It has no engine or trans. There is not place to put a jack in the center of the car. Two jacks made short work of the job and it was safe.

Furthermore, I always have a stack of lumber under the center of the car just below the pan. Any car I'm under cannot fall enough to hurt anything except my pride. I live in earthquake country and anything can happen at any time.

Lastly, I recommend 6 T jacks for the rear and a min of 3 ton for the front. These models seem to have the best height range for their respective positions. 6 T all around is never a bad idea. Again, they are cheap these days.

[hcoles]

re. earthquake - a funny side story
in 1989 we had the big quake here... my buddy from work was home working on his car putting in a new clutch. At the exact time of the quake he was turning the key for the first time and the whole car started shaking.. it took him awhile to figure out it was an earthquake and that the clutch install was ok. But very good point.... a good earthquake may push a car off jack stands.. have double or triple back ways of having the car held up.

[Zeke]

I hate to hijack, but I was driving in Costa Mesa when the Costa Mesa quake hit. I thought something was really wrong with my truck. I didn't even know about the quake until sometime later.

Glad I or he weren't under a car when one hit.

[911pcars]

"Avoid placing your 911 on 4 jack stands; it's just not that stable."

Not practical when one must work under the car. Not everyone has a garage pit to work from. How do you remove the drivetrain? Do you have a vehicle lift or do you raise the rear end at an extreme angle to access the underside?

Rule one: Release the parking brake and shift to neutral. The floor jack lifting arm as well as the vehicle rise in an arc, and because of this, the vehicle or the floor jack must be allowed to move slightly when lifting. If the car and floor jack are fixed in place (e.g. the floor jack wheels aren't pointed in the correct direction or on soft ground), the lifting pad will shift slightly on the chassis - usually not a problem, but then you never know unless you're aware of it.

My personal front lift technique:
I installed aluminum spacers between the front crossmember and the sheet metal cover to span this air space and make it solid. When I want to lift the front, I place a lift adapter in the chassis jack receptacle and lift with a bottle jack just high enough to slide a floor jack with a block of wood under the front cover. Since this is location is in the middle, the front end goes up evenly (the approach angle of the floor jack is immaterial). Place jack stands under the aforementioned torsion bar covers. As described by Milt, jackstands and a 2x4/2x6 across the floor pan behind the front wheels also works.

I have archived mild rants about lifting with a jack under the engine.

Sherwood

[Trotskyite]

Any tips for changing out wheels at track days? It seems like an awful lot to go through in the paddock. I have a wheel chock and a lightweight jack, should I really be that worried?

[tcar]

4 small jackstands: Friend did as the early pic. Tripped on a lug wrench and barely bumped the car.

Came tumbling down. His brother had just rolled out to get a wrench or he'd be history.

I try to keep at least 2 tires/wheels on at all times.

A couple stacks of 2x wood under is a great idea.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by Trotskyite

Any tips for changing out wheels at track days? It seems like an awful lot to go through in the paddock. I have a wheel chock and a lightweight jack, should I really be that worried?

At the track as well as off-track, I think the NASCAR approach should work fine to change tires. The car doesn't have to be that high for this job. Please provide backup support in case the $.02 O-ring decides to expire.

Sherwood

[vreference]

Originally Posted by Trotskyite

Any tips for changing out wheels at track days? It seems like an awful lot to go through in the paddock. I have a wheel chock and a lightweight jack, should I really be that worried?

I wouldn't hesitate to change wheels one at a time with just a jack; I make a conscious effort to keep parts of my body out from under the car until I've got another wheel and a lugnut or two back in place. I don't know that they need to be treated like high-explosives - just don't get comfortable.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by vreference

I wouldn't hesitate to change wheels one at a time with just a jack; I make a conscious effort to keep parts of my body out from under the car until I've got another wheel and a lugnut or two back in place. I don't know that they need to be treated like high-explosives - just don't get comfortable.

Please don't attempt this with the factory jack (e.g. time bomb). A backup, especially if you're in your own workshop, is prudent and will cost you but 10 seconds of extra effort. But maybe you're one of those guys who like to live on the edge. Don't retrieve that lug nut or socket that rolls under the car though without hesitating.

Thanks,
Sherwood

[eR1c]

This may sound like a really dumb question, (but here it goes)

I plan on changing my oil and trans fluid in the coming month or so. I brought it to the shop for this service last time, yet would like to do it myself this time. I have a jack and 4 jack stands and 2 rhino ramps (I work on my other car quite a bit). W/ the car so low to the ground, seems like it needs to be raised to do an oil change and transmission fluid change. -am I wrong? Also, doesn't the car need to be level when replacing these fluids and thus need to be jacked up all around on 4 stands (or ramps)?

In a nut shell, do you guys change your oil + trans fluid w/o raising your cars? How do you fit under there???

[gtc]

I change my oil with the car on the ground. The drain plugs are easy to get to, so it really just depends if you can fit your drain pan under the car.
I personally like to raise the car and remove the rear wheel to do the tranny fluid. I find it pretty difficult to reach the drain and filler plugs otherwise. I do raise the whole car to do this, so the transmission is level and thus fills to the proper level.