The WORST RSR front flare welding job EVER.

[rennch]

I've decided to cross-post this in my personal car-build thread, as well as the main technical forum so perhaps someone can benefit from this debacle.

A few months ago I bought a set of already flared early front fenders for my RSR project. Upon initial test-install, I found that the flare job didn't match my front bumper. (See my Project 69'er thread for details).

Since I had to reshape the flare, I took a grinder to them a few weeks ago and discovered *inches* of bondo on the fender.

This week, I had them professionally sandblasted to remove the paint and any bondo.

They were 10 lbs lighter *each* when I got them back. That's not a joke, or an exaggeration. *10* lbs. each.

Upon first inspection, I was BLOWN AWAY by how poorly the flares were installed, and what terrible attention to detail whomever installed them was willing to put up with. These are beautiful cars that don't deserve this.

Warning...the following photos might upset some viewers. I'll let them speak for themselves before I narrate what I did today to rectify the situation:

[herman maire]

I hope you didnt pay to much..... Those are some pretty mean welds

[rennch]

Well, I had two options: Cut the flare off, clean the welds and reshape the warped fender, fixing the rust along the way, or leave the flare on, trim the excess from the *inside*, and reshape.

I chose the former...why not do it right?

I had to be very careful to make the cut just inside the existing pigeon poop welds. I didn't want to remove too much good flare.





Committed.




The front lower part of the fender was the worst. This piece had to go:




Off, on it's way to the trash can:




The cut fender, before I cleaned up the welds. (It took over an hour of grinding to clean the welds off:




Cleaned up:

[rennch]

I sliced and notched the lower portion of the stock fender so I could pull it out to mate with my RSR front bumper:





I clamped it in place to do a quick test fit of the flare. Already it looks a million times better than the bondo-fenders I started with.




My plan is to tack the bottom portion back where it was, but remove the top of the double layer of the lower-bottom front fender. I had to carefully remove the doubled part without cutting through the lower part:




Once the top skin was off, the fit was really nice:




Unfortunately, the bottom layer had some significant rust that I couldn't just grind off, so I decided to patch it, grind it, and POR 15 it for future rust prevention. I'm getting the hang of this welding thing yet...

[rennch]

Fitted:



Welded:



Ground Smooth:



POR'ed, and put up for the evening. I'll make more progress tomorrow morning, and hopefully get the flare fitted and tacked. I'll feel MUCH better knowing it's done right this time. I should note that, this is the first time I've ever done this, so excuse any obvious mistakes I'm making...

[SCWDP911]

awesome... looks like you had to clean up a real mess...

[pksystems]

That's nothing compared to what I'm beginning to find on my car

Rough cut, like inch of bondo for FG flares, oh.... and while we're at it.... lets hide that frame damage by welding the fender right onto the frame. :P

Keep up the great work

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Wow. . . that was just. . . wow.

Congrats on taking the initiative to clean it up.

A 911 fender isn't the place to learn how to weld. Obviously someone didn't either (1) practice elsewhere first or (2) have the sense to take it to someone who knows how to weld.

I have no idea how to weld, but if I was putting flares on my car, I certainly wouldn't start there. I'd take it to someone.

Good going anyway and best of luck with the car. Hopefully not too many other weird surprises.

[3.2 CAB]

I just have to say that was some of the crappiest panel patch jobs that I have ever seen. With as much Bondo that you say that were on these, I would doubt that even a very strong magnet would have stuck to them. Keep up the good work. Good luck!! Tony.

[Dantilla]

I'm impressed that you are willing to do major surgery like that next to expensive Fikse wheels.

I've got a couple of old, bent Cookie Cutters that I use for shop rollers so that my Fikses can stay far away from me when I have tools in my hands.

[Zeke]

Good thing your time is worth nothing to you. I'd have thrown those away except for the practice you're getting out of that mess. When you grind over someone else's grinding, you just get too thin of metal to work well with, not to mention all the work hardening of the metal that has occurred due to welding, hammering and grinding. Work with some virgin metal and see what I mean.

BTW, Porsche used 1mm metal, or our 18 ga., which is equivalent. You need this much thickness to do good welding. Mic those cuts.

[rennch]

Well Milt...I'm actually pretty pleased with how it's turning out so far. I know it was an undertaking, but I'm far less intimidated now than I was a year ago. I never would have tackled this then, but now I'm having some fun problem solving. More pics with today's progress later.

[Zeke]

I didn't say you couldn't do it, just that you're fighting a tough battle. Metalwork is easy once you get the feel. You need nice soft metal of a uniform thickness to work and weld it with ease. And, use very little filler to finish up. Most of my welds take a skim coat of lead and that's it. Not bragging here, it's the way things are done. You don't go to Foose's shop and see a bunch of Bondo dust on the floor. Whoever did that mess to start with is a kludge of the first order.

It's like house painting, most hate it because they don't know how to do it right and how easy it is. It's some of the easiest work I've ever done.

[rennch]

Ok, today's update. I did a grind of the excess POR-15, and started aligning the fender off the car so I could get the flare mounted. I then tack-welded the lower portion of the flare:





I then went to mount the fender on the car, but discovered the crappy headlight bucket patch" was in the way, and had to go:







I'll deal with that later, using the other, good headlight bucket as a template.

[rennch]

Ok guys, I need some help here. I am now faced with aligning these front flares, and it would appear, if I'm using other cars (including real RSRs) for a reference, that my bumpers are a bit too wide. In the RSR pics, it looks like the front of the flare slopes inward to meet the bumper. If I fit mine the way they are, they would be about vertical. I'm also concerned about the wheel opening...should I make it even all the way around? Take a look at these pictures, and let me know what you think.

Thanks.














I'm thinking I might trim the front bumper to be a bit narrower, and fit the flares to that. thoughts?

[Kevin Stewart]

are you putting the same flair on you took off?, Kevin

[911Freak]

I spent a couple of hours reading thru your other post last night (great reading) and with the benefit of fresh eyes on the posts from both here and there I'd second a couple of the guys by saying the bumper just looks out of whack...

If you go thru the pictures of the RSR's not one of them had a perfectly matched "front" bumper to front fender flare, close but not "new porsche" close..with that being said, I do believe you need to massage that front bumper... go thru the pictures and find a combo you'd be satified with and work towards that. or better get some measurements from the experts (PorscheDoc- TRE etc.) these guys know these cars...

Maybe get some really good templates and measurements to go off of?

IMHO~
It seems a big stretch to get the flare you have matched up with that front bumper...from the pics the little bit left of the fender down where they meet is going to have to really be tweeked to meet way out at the edge of the bumper then also flow back in and up to meet the flare where you have the big gap for the next patch panel??

Anyways keep up the great documentation of this project..can't wait until you get past this last serious hurtle!

[dvkk]

While this patch is only on an inner panel and never seen, it is an opportunity to practise and do a better job:



Cut your hole so the edges are straighter. Use a smaller diameter, thinner cutoff wheel to make these cuts. It looks like you used your big angle grinder by the way the sides have little notches in them.

Cut the patch so it fits TIGHT to the hole. Those big gaps are no good. Filling them with weld is what the previous hack did.

Experiment with copper bars clamped to the other side. The copper will hold the patch flush to the original metal, and provides a fantastic heat sink to pull away excess heat. This prevents warpage. I also use old copper pennies (ground flat) as clamping pads for the vise grips. You can weld right up to the copper, it will not stick.

[3.2 CAB]

I think that you are doing a great job so far, and you have learned and will learn a lot more about metalwork. Good luck!! Tony.

[rennch]

Originally Posted by 911Freak

If you go thru the pictures of the RSR's not one of them had a perfectly matched "front" bumper to front fender flare, close but not "new porsche" close..with that being said, I do believe you need to massage that front bumper... go thru the pictures and find a combo you'd be satified with and work towards that. or better get some measurements from the experts (PorscheDoc- TRE etc.) these guys know these cars...

Maybe get some really good templates and measurements to go off of?

IMHO~
It seems a big stretch to get the flare you have matched up with that front bumper...from the pics the little bit left of the fender down where they meet is going to have to really be tweeked to meet way out at the edge of the bumper then also flow back in and up to meet the flare where you have the big gap for the next patch panel??

Agreed...that's why I am making a call to arms here. I think the bumper is too wide, so my plan is to do some custom fiberglass work, and trim a bit off of the existing bumper. That said, I haven't welded the flare on yet...it's just screwed in on the front of the fender at the moment. I'm looking for measurements this week.