New Member, New Problem

[bell911]

I've patrolled this forum regularly for some time, but have had nothing to contribute until now. I have a stock 77 911, 2.7, that has been a daily driver for two or so years. Upon parking it and washing it, the car would not restart. Car cranks, and hits briefly, but will only continue to run if I hold the key in the start position slightly longer, but when the key is released back to the on position, it immediatley dies. Before this, when the key was switched on, I was able to hear what I thought was the fuel pump, but this stopped when this problem arrived. Routine maintenance have been the only repairs made to the car, and service is up to date with the exception of the fuel filter, which is only slightly overdue. I've found no loose wires. What do the experts think? Fuel pump? Key switch, and if so, the electrical portion or the mechanical one? Thanks in advance. I'd post pictures but the car is not that special.

[Ned, NYNA11]

Take off the distributor cap and dry it out.

Use a hair dryer to dry the inside and outside of the distributor.

[KFC911]

Wet distributor cap?

edited: oops, I'm slow...

[silverc4s]

Bell,
Welcome to the forum. You have to post pictures anyway, even if they don't help fix your problem...

Seriously, the CIS fuel injection system on your engine has some pretty unique "features", and more than a few of them will cause you starting and running difficulty as your car ages.

Fortunately there are some CIS experts here that can help you troubleshoot most any problem. I predict that you will have help in short order here.

[Porsche_monkey]

The fuel pump should only run when there is air flow through the intake, I think.

You may have a fuel problem, maybe the car is starting on the cold start injector (that sprays while you are cranking)?

[Grady Clay]

Bell,
Welcome!
You will get a lot of good advice here. Already much above.

I agree with the above advice. I’ll add that your symptoms seem to be that you are only running on the cold start enrichment (while cranking) and not on the normal ‘running’ circuit.

There can be several reasons. First might be a popped-off safety valve in your air box. If you don’t have a safety valve, it could be a ‘blown’ air box. Either way you get too much air compared to fuel for the engine to run.

Above there is the suggestion of fuel pump malfunction. Test by manually raising the sensor plate and see if the pump operates and the nozzles squirt. Your 911 should have a circuit that only allows the fuel pump to operate when the sensor plate is moved up.

Best,
Grady

[silver_911]

Despite the distributor cap, you can check:

- fuel pump: pull the red fuel pump relay in the luggage compartment, switch on ignition: any change to the usual whining noise? -> fuel pump or connection faulty
- CDI ignition: check the connector at the CDI unit and the contacts at the ignition coil. Whiggle them a bit, retighten.
- Pry on all ignition wires.
- Whiggle 14 pin connector at the regulator panel, watch you instruments with ignition on: any changes on oil pressure, tach or oil temp? Then the connection is not good
- turn all fuses a bit, pull all realys and put them back. Maybe its just a little bit of oxidation.

After that, you can start exploring more hardware items in your engine bay.

Hope this helps,

jw

[bell911]

Thank to all for the quick replies. I tried these suggestions, but there is no moisture in the cap. I pulled the relays and fuses but got nothing. I did get the car to run after several attempts. It ran with no misses at 4k rpm, but after ten or so seconds it died as if someone threw a switch. No sputtering, just immediate shut down. It still hits every time I crank it, but no running. The whining I used to hear is still gone, although I'm not sure what it was in the first place.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by bell911

Thank to all for the quick replies. I tried these suggestions, but there is no moisture in the cap. I pulled the relays and fuses but got nothing. I did get the car to run after several attempts. It ran with no misses at 4k rpm, but after ten or so seconds it died as if someone threw a switch. No sputtering, just immediate shut down. It still hits every time I crank it, but no running. The whining I used to hear is still gone, although I'm not sure what it was in the first place.

This quote, coupled with your first, would make me suspect the fuel pump--source of the whining noise that is no longer there. There has been some discussion as to if the pump should run without the car running--my 75 pump runs with just the ignition on, but others' cars do not. The CDI should also whine and if it's not, that may indicate an intermittent failure mode which allows the car to start sometimes but not others. Keep investigating and let us know what you find.

[Porsche_monkey]

Do you have fuel pressure gages? If you want to troubleshoot a CIS car you need them.

[bell911]

Afraid I have no gauges. I'm about to try Grady's suggestions for fuel pump testing. A friend suggested the accumulator may be at fault. Webers are looking better every minute.

[bell911]

OK. Per Grady's instructions, I performed the test by popping out the injector located at the drivers side rear engine, whichever cylinder that is. With the sensor plate down, there was no fuel squirted. With the sensor plate up, plenty of fuel squirted. I can also hear the fuel pump when the plate is up, but not down. Maybe not the fuel pump. Grady if you're still around, what next? Thanks again.

[KFC911]

Bell, Grady will get back to you soon I'm sure. Since you're new here (and maybe don't know him well "yet"), but you're in VERY capable hands (amongst many others here)...I'm just a novice and do as the gurus say . Welcome aboard!

[vash]

bell, i had a 75 car. the exact thing happened to me. it was a few bad spark plug ends. the beru ends. part that cups over the sparkplug. i changed them out (only the ends) and my troubles went away.

look for spark.

[bell911]

Pulled the wire from the coil off the distributor cap. Got plenty of spark. After looking at the plug wires I remembered I have never changed them, and the service records don't indicate anybody else changing them either. Think I'll order some from Pelican, but in the meantime...

[Zeke]

It does sound like it's starving for fuel. But, the key here is this problem came about after you got something wet. I'd investigate connections.

I used to cover my 77's engine before washing. Leave your keys on any cover you use so you can't forget and suck a towel into the fan. Not pretty.

[bell911]

Just for fun I had a msd coil laying around so I installed it and guess what! Didn't fix a thing. Plug wires are ordered, hope it helps.

[GothingNC]

Did you try swapping the red fuel pump relay with another round black relay (window/horn)?

I had an issue with the fuel pump running with just the ignition on and that problem went away with a new relay.

Good luck.

[bell911]

All is well. It was a relay. $200 dollars later and it was a silly relay. Oh well. Live and learn.

[ras911]

Nice call John D!